Thats a cool set up Brad. I was thinking of making mine a two stage, first pressure switch kicks on one nozzle at 5 lbs and second switch kicks in the second nozzle at 10lbs. The nozzles would seperate being downstream near each turbo. Probably needs some refining, just thinking out loud.

 

i'm in the same boat trying to figure out which kit to buy, i did see some complaints the snow systems controller, whereas the aem supposedly was better, but the plumbing with the aem was supposedly not good?? another knock i read against the snow system was that it comes with the tank level sensor, but you have to cut the tank to install it? i'm looking to buy a complete kit, any more suggestions?

 

Go big or go home

http://howertonengineering.com/products/aquamist-systems/aquamist-hfs-4/

 

I like what I see in the Coolingmist kit I got, making it a dual stage kit(adding a second pressure switch and solenoid) may not be as ideal as a progressive, but I'm just building a fast street car. Hopefully I will start converting my motor from NA to turbos soon, and will know better about water/meth injection. Check out Coolingmist on Ebay, that is where I got a great deal on their kit, saved about $100 over the regular price.

 

I've used AIS and snow kit. AIS blew the snow kit out of the water in every way. Great kit. Tune for it though.

 

Why is it I see progressive controller mentioned? I thought the pump just turned on at desired boost and the nozzles regulate flow?

 

Im installing a Snow Performance on a customers supercharged suburban. Hopefully I will see decent gains.

 

The PAC kit is progressive, based on MAP readings, it ramps up pump voltage/speed in a very predictable way.
The higher the boost, the more spray,

 

The progressive controller sends pulsed 12V power to the pump to "progressively" increase flow. In real life, depending on the pumps max pressure, and the controller, you will really only see a 1.X:1 to 2.X:1 progression of flow unless pulsing the solenoid.

 

The PAC (http://www.alkycontrol.com/) system will do much more than the range you suggested. I do believe it ramps voltage, not just pulsing 12v, but I could be wrong about that, it may just vary the voltage an analog gauge, (or a motor), would read by pulsing it. I would encourage anyone contemplating a meth system to visit the above link and do some reading. I have done business with the owner a few times, and he is a Wizard at designing and building, (IMHO) the best methanol injection system available.

 

Rick, it's not about the controller, it's about the pump and nozzle.

This info is from a few years ago, so the "almost all pumps are shurflo" is outdated, but still applies, just add extra numbers.

Changing pump speed merely put more pressure behind a nozzle, hence more flow. This type of system is commonly known as a progressive system (pump-speed).

Let us examine how much a M5 nozzle will flow between 40psi to 160psi. According the chart below (Published by Hago, a well know US oil heater nozzle manufacturer), the flow starts from 200cc/min and ends at 400cc/min., when pressure is increased from 40psi to 160 psi.

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Almost all PWM pump controller on the market uses Shurflo pump, designed to operate between 0-150psi. The heart of the system is an electronic motor speed controller, vary the speed according to a sensor. It could be a MAP sensor, a MAF or any sensors that read engine load. It is normally a 2-dimensional system. A manifold-pressure type system does not take into account of any RPM change.

A swirling type atomising nozzle requires a head pressure of at least 30psi to produce a decent mist. Droplet size is very important to the inlet cooling ability and even cylinder distribution. Let say the system pressure starts at 40psi (as shown on the chart) and ends at 160psi. One can assume you will get a 4x flow range? In practice, not so, according to the chart, you will only get a flow change from 200cc/min to 400cc.min (see M5) instead of 200cc/min to 800cc/min. Flow/pressure obeys the square-root law.

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Being "progressive" implies a reasonable dynamic range between start and finish. How progressive? Almost no one ever questions this. Most people just assumes it covers all the flow requirement between 10psi to 20 psi of boost once the range-dials are set on their pump speed controller. In practice, you cannot expect the same M5 nozzle will serve a wider operating range between 5-25psi by merely changing the dial, the range is governed by the law of physics and not a technically advanced motor speed controller.

If one would want to delve deeper into the subject, as the title demands. So the subject will continue?

Just to recap, good dynamic range (pressure/flow span) is the main factor one should expect from a "progressive" WIA system. Let see what a 150psi system can really offer. We shall take into account of the effect of manifold pressure, inline checkvalve as well as minimum pressure for a good atomised spray.

For example:
1) Manifold pressure start: 10psi
2) Manifold pressure ends: 20psi
3) Inline checkvalve crack pressure: 20psi (updated)
4) Minimum pressure of the atomising nozzle:40psi (Hago chart).

When the system starts: it will instantly see an initial back-pressure of 60psi and a final back-pressure of 70psi (extra manifold pressure). The actual dynamic pressure range is now from 60psi to 110psi. The system can now only manage a 35% change in flow, far from one would imagine a 150psi pump system should perform.

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Adding the 250 or 300 psi pump, although I doubt most here are actually getting that much pressure, you are still only at
87% or 123% progressiveness. Pulsing a solenoid correctly will get you many times that.

 

WOW, GREAT INFO!!!!
I never delved that deep into the subject, just had great experiences with that particular alky kit. It took a customer's full weight, full interior G/N, (that I built the motor for), on 87 octane, to 28 psi with no knock at all. I never got him to the track with it, (he wound up in a nasty divorce and had to sell the car), but it was easily a mid 11 second ride, possibly even low 11s with a bit more tweaking.

 

Rickracer, not many people do.

The water methanol forums at Nasioc and EvolutionM have alot of good info The text above was from http://forums.evolutionm.net/water-...2953-indepth-study-wai-injection-systems.html

2 videos to check out.

PPS, pulsed pump speed (coolingmist, snow, devil's own, alkycontrol, banks, etc)

[video=youtube;3xuAPg1FnGk][/video]

Pulse width modulated valve (pulsed solenoid like I mentioned earlier), Aquamist, former FJO)

[video=youtube;_HQMTfybwaA][/video]

If you want to dive in deeper, consider how much fuel (methanol) you are injecting based solely on one signal (MAP being the worst, MAF being a little better), and then look at your tuning logs and see how those compare to your RPM, and actual fuel injector duty cycle. Notice that alot of cars will have full boost at different rpms in different gears, and even in the same gear your boost isn't always the same at the same RPM.

 

The cooling mist system is working good for me.

 

let me ask, how does everyone know these kits are working? does anyone have dyno numbers with system off and then on, or proven track results on the same day-system off then on?

 

Devels Own here .. Fitted on 6.5 GM V8 non inter cooled diesel on 9m RV.. At present I have it actuating on throttle to keep things simple .. Haven't measured intake temps ! But it pulls up hills with ease on 40c* 100*f Aussie temps..20% meth .

 

Might be helpful

 

I am using the Aquamist HFS4v3 on my Focus ST.

I made a custom port injected setup using a steeda manifold spacer and four .4mm check valve injectors pushing 140cc/min each @ a fixed 160psi pump pressure. Next week I will be adding a 5th injector to the cold side of my intercooler to spray pre IC-MAP sensor for air cooling purposes. That injector will have an inline check valve rather than a built in CV, it will be a .6mm jet flowing 250cc/min.

I have tuned the system to be more responsive to my DI-IDC rather than boost but it still samples both inputs as well as the FPR sensor. I am using the system to both cool the pistons and provide supplemental fueling for my GTX3076R build.

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Any reason you didn't pick up the Howerton Engineering tank for the install? Just wondering...

 

as of two weeks ago I had never heard of them. I would like to have them make a tank for the Focus ST since our community is starting move away from the cheaper systems and embracing the HFS4v3. I may reach out to them and try to convince them to become a vendor over on FocusST.org. I may even see if they would like to use my car for prototyping.