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Turbo vs N/A... Peak power through the traps

Discussion in 'Turbo Tech Questions' started by Dsrtjeeper, Sep 21, 2023.

  1. F4K

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    There are too many assumptions unlisted.

    If the natural aspirated engine has real time cam phase then the torque can become absolutely flat and the power is a linear straight line with a peak at peak rpm. I've seen this in Honda S2k engines.

    In turbo applications we control boost using a controller so you can dial up the boost or down with RPM to make the curve any shape you want.

    If you understand volumetric efficiency vs work this whole discussion becomes obsolete and kind of silly. Probably why gruntguru is like ehhhhh f off guys nobody got time for dat *silence*
     
  2. gruntguru

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2019
    What I meant is "rpm will be the same unless gearing or slip is different". So at a particular trap speed, the rpm will be the same for turbo and NA. rpm will be different if:
    a) gearing is different (different ratios or tyre diameter)
    b) slip is different (car has a torque converter)
    c) slip is different (tyre slip % increases due to extra torque. This is always the case but usually negligible (less than 1% increase))
     
  3. F4K

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    I don't even understand how anybody could suggest that a turbo car with twice or three times the power is going to be through the trap at the same rpm and mph as a naturally aspirated car.

    that aside, if we set the trap speed constant the insinuation is that both engines make the identical amount of power area under the curve. Which may or may not suggest that they both make identical torque as well. They are both naturally aspirated one just happens to have a turbo running 0.557psi. Which means even with a converter the slip would be the same, making the point moot.

    No matter how we look at it the question is flawed. And tire tire slip is an obvious fuckery- of course if there is tire spin rpm will be higher? do we need to tell them that. really.
     
    underpsi68 likes this.
  4. tbird

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2004
    Both can have the same peak rpm with different acceleration rates.
    Obviously the gearing would have to be different to have the desired rpm at trap speed between the two.
     
  5. Dsrtjeeper

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2019
    I have no idea why slip has been inserted into the conversation. Things are getting overcomplicated. tbird answered the question in post# 2.
     
  6. F4K

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    Different acceleration = different power = different trap speed = different mph = different RPM with same gearing/tires/slip

    Therefore, although the statement could become true, it would be (nearly) physically impossible to add a turbo to an engine and have it produce the 1hp+ more and wind up at the same trap rpm which implies the peak is no longer the trap rpm (peak may be the same but the trap rpm/mph has moved which requires different gearing or slip or tire size or vehicle weight/friction).

    I think mostly just boredom or looking for something to take the mind off the gradual affects of entropy background radiation and heated soup ripping everything apart
     
  7. tbird

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2004
    Yeh, I stated gearing would be different.
     
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