sorry AIS didnt realize i respond to the same thread over in "carb+boost" section as well obviously you can ignore it.

 

No problem.

 

Using 100% pure methanol. good < bad??

 

No, pure mehanol is just fine. Many of our customers prefer to use pure methanol. However, depending on the application we have found a blend of water and methanol to work better. Check out our other post as to why.

 

I want to set my kit up so that I can use one of your kits but I want to be able to run without it to start off. My fabricator told me to send him the necessary part and he would take care of the rest. What do I need to get from you to have my kit setup so that I can add the rest when the time comes?

 

Give us a call directly at 1.801.447.2559 so we can first go over your car and the engine combination your running. From there we can begin to select the type of system requirments your going to need and discuss the various options available for you.

 

All new black anodized aluminum tank straps included with each kit now!!! This replaces the previously supplied adjustable rubber straps which were included with each system.

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Thanks for your help.

 

Sure thing. Let us know if you have any other questions about water methanol injection.

 

www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com

 

www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com

 

www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com

 

What are the long term effects of running meth inj. Does it have corrosive effects on bare aluminum/steel, dry out/crack gaskets/o-rings etc?
just wondering.
Mike

 

Interested in your thoughts with your quote above and talk of bsfc in some of the classic turbo manuals (specifically MacInnis book, page 138) paraphrasing:

Unless I read this wrong, plain water was used in order to tolerate higher boost pressures without having to run richer? That is to say, I could tune for 12.5 a/f across the entire rpm/boost range, and not have to drop to 11.5 or something at higher boost in order to stave off detonation?

I picked up a used Varijection setup off ebay after reading that, figuring it might be useful when my project finally comes together (big block mopar).

Your comments are appreciated.

 

Fortunately, there are no long term side effects. Essentially there is to much gasoline still going through the engine keeping everything lubricated. Additionally, if this is a vehicle which see's street duty, you have to remember your basically only using the methanol injection during boosted times. This actually onle makes up for a small percentage of the total time the engine is running. It's not as if your running pure methanol 100% percent of the time.

As for gaskets, intake manifolds, the engine block, etc. Everything will be just fine with the addition of a water methanol injection system.

 

I currently have a Gen 2 Lightning that has a PT76GTSH turbo on it. It still runs the factory water to air innercooler system, if I add water injection to it would I inject before the throttle body (before the innercooler) or in the lower manifold (after the innercooler)?

Rich

 

Hi Rich,

On applications like this we would simply inject right at the throttle body. You will get a slightly better effect injecting after the intercooler in the manifold. However, this requires so much more work and additional nozzles and fittings to maintain proper distribution between all cylinders. Injecting before the throttle body is plenty beneficial.

For example, go to Magnacharger.com and you'll see a video on their home page of a LS2 engine built and tuned by Kenny Duttwieler. This engine was equipped with the Magnacharger 122 and their air-to-water intercooler just as you have. They used our Stage 2 progressive system with pure alcohol, on 91 octane pump gas made over 700+ horsepower. This is exactly what we do with every other Magnacharged Corvette.

How much boost are you running with your turbocharger?

 

Unfortunately, I have not read that book.

Essentially, you can run a slightly leaner air fuel ratio with the addition of a water injection system. We prefer maintianing the same normal a/f ratios as you would normally have without the water injection. If this is a carbureted application we have no ways of setting the carburetor to add fuel in the event the water methanol injection system runs out of fluid like we can with EFI applications. It really depends on the application. This is all part of tuning and personal preferences as many have.

 

On my street tune I am running 15psi. But I want to run 20+ at the track with out race fuel. I just want to run 93 pump gas.

Rich

 

My suggestion then is running a pre-turbocharger nozzle set up.

By placing the nozzle or nozzles pre-turbocharger and injecting a fine precise amount of water/methanol into the air inlet of the turbocharger, can have a dramatic positive effect on compressor efficiency while substantially lowering discharge temperatures at the source. Users can expect to see a 90-160+ degree drop in air charge temperatures on 8-25 psi applications. While reductions of 160-240+degree's can be had on 25-60+ psi high boost applications such as diesels.

How is this possible?

When water methanol is first injected we are able to begin slightly cooling the incoming air entering the compressor. This air is relatively cool depending on the ambient temperature of the day. Additionally, it has yet to be compressed and heated. Depending on the temperature of the day and how the air inlet is plumped and where the air is being drawn in from, the incoming air commonly ranges between 5-10 degree's above ambient. Cooling at this stage is insignificant. More importantly, we are dramatically cooling the air that is being compressed and heated within the turbocharger.

It's important to understand it is here that the heat is being generated.

A turbochargers impeller can spin at an astonishing speed between 100,000- 150,000 rpms. Between each pair of blades on an impeller exists a wedge shaped open void which the air fills in. As the impeller is spinning, this wedge shaped air pocket is subjected to tremendous centrifugal forces and is forced outward away from the center of the impeller to the outer edges. It is here where the air begins to stack up and compress against the compressor housing forming the heat. As the compressed air heats up, it try's to expand, making it now more difficult for the compressed expanding gases to exit the turbocharger. In addition, this compressed, less dense, hot air is taking up more space within the compressor limiting new incoming air from being processed. Further more, the hot compressed air exiting the turbocharger is less dense as it has been heated significantly. Therefore, containing less power producing oxygen while making the engine considerably more prone to detonation.

By cooling the air being compressed within the turbocharger, the compressed air is now substantially cooler, more dense, taking less space allowing us to pack more air through the turbocharger. Additionally, it has less outward pressure as the compressed air is trying to exit the turbocharger thereby allowing for more air to exiting the compressor. In turn, allowing for more air to enter and pass through the turbocharger. This leads us to our second benefit. Improved turbocharger efficiency.

All of this results in improved turbocharger efficiency. Because of this improved efficiency the turbocharger does not have to work as hard to produce the same amount of boost as without the water methanol injection. In turn it improves the maximum mass air flow of the turbocharger. Thereby, making a smaller turbocharger now perform like a larger turbocharger with the addition of the water methanol injection.

Lastly, as already mentioned above, pre-turbocharger injection substantially lowers the discharge temperatures exiting the turbocharger. The engine is now less prone to detonation through this reduction in air charge temperatures. Furthermore, the use of an intercooler is dramatically reduced and in some applications no longer needed as it may not offer substantial further cooling effects in return for the pressure drop caused but it. Removal of the intercooler could now offer a further increase in boost pressure at the engine as well as turbocharger efficiency.

While all of this sounds very exciting. To do this properly requires proper sizing of the nozzles in relation to the turbocharger size and output. Additionally, the type fluid being used also effects the size of the nozzle selected. When done properly, very little of the water methanol mist injected into the inlet of the turbocharger survives the process. Thereby, discharging a much cooler air charge with a relativity high humidity with very little or no water methanol droplets present.

When injecting water, we can quickly over saturate the air charge and have an excess of fluid discharging the turbocharger. Water has a much higher latent heat of vaporization, nearly double that of methanol, and does not flash (instantly evaporate) like that of methanol or other alcohols when injected into a hot air stream. Therefore, a smaller nozzle must be used when spraying pure water.

A better choice for pre-turbocharger injection is a greater concentration of methanol vs. water or pure methanol. Methanol instantly flashes (evaporating) as soon as it enters into the turbocharger and meets the heat within it. This alone dramatically reduces the amount of actual fluid exiting the turbocharger. Additionally, methanol offers much greater cooling effect then water. Furthermore, methanol is also less dense then water thereby having a softer impact on the impeller. The specific gravity of pure methanol is .792 @ 68° F compared to water which is 1.00 @ 64° F.

One major concern associated with pre-turbocharger injection is erosion of the impeller. This is only likely to occur when injecting solid stream of water at the impeller or using an excessively large nozzle. Otherwise, impeller erosion is of little concern.