Article talking about using turbochargers to improve fuel economy. Talks a bit about eco-boost.

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/68428/turbochargings_not_just_a_lot_of_hot_air.aspx

With direct injection, when is the fuel injected? Intake stroke, compression stroke, or combustion stroke?

 

I see the Eco boost doesn't have full VVT with one adjustable cam on each bank..
The water pump drive is a worry also...

 

This info is from a diesel patent paper but the strategy is basically the same of a Gas DI Engine:

http://www.freshpatents.com/-dt20090402ptan20090088945.php

 

Interesting. I thought maybe the reduction in detonation was due to withholding fuel until the end of the compression stroke/beginning of the combustion stroke. Not so.

The patent talks about stratifying the charge with a richer mixture near the plug and leaner mixture elsewhere. I remember reading that stratification was part of the secret with the Larry Widmer (T.O.O.) heads. Larry's heads induced a swirl (the precursor to Vortec heads) so I figured the strata of mixtures would be concentric rings at various distances from the center of the cylinder. Instead, when they measured the stratification, the layers were "up and down" in the cylinder. I still cannot envision how swirl can stratify the mixture "up and down".

With a direct injection fueling strategy described in the patent, (squirting a little at the end of the exhaust, then again during intake), at least I can see how this stratification might be possible.

 

Good info. here.
Anyone with knowledge of aftermarket tuning options yet for the Ecoboost Fords?
-J

 

You need to realize that many people have moved away from "Swirl" to "Tumble" and with Tumble as you modulate the fuel you can get layers of fuel as the air rotates in a vertical circle across the far wall, across the piston, and then up the other wall.

Tom Vaught

 

It impresses me Ford is putting a 12.5 to 1 pump gas turbo motor into production. To pull this off you would need to have a really keen understanding of detonation. I'm trying to wrap my mind around the techniques they are employing to counter detonation so effectively.

I re-read some of the articles from your original post. In addition to tumble and modulation to stratify the charge, the jalopnik article also mentions that the injector is pointed at a divot in the piston that kicks extra fuel towards the plug.

It seams like intercooling and "rich near the plug, lean everywhere else" are the major contributors to preventing detonation in this engine unless I'm missing something.

Why is "rich near the plug, lean everywhere else" so effective? Why don't the lean areas detonate when the charge is set up this way?

 

I dont know if ford has this technology or not, but it would be nice if they could further improve the engines gas mileage by using BMW's valvetronic to modulate throttle.

Throttle plates are 'butterfly' valves, they are terribly innefficient means for throttling. BMW came out with infinitely variable lift intake valves, basically the throttling takes place at the intake valves. And since intake valves are streamlined, you can bet this will boost efficiency.

Not only that, but valvetronic can promote gas velocity at any RPM which takes advantage of the 'packing' of air. Valvetronic is truly an amazing technology.

I would love to see a future version of Fords V6 twin turbo with infinately variable cam timing, valve lift and the eco-boost DI.

All priced under $30,000 please, thanks!

 

All good suggestions. I just do Boost stuff and can't speak for the rest of your suggestions.

Tom Vaught

 

The compression ratio in the EcoBoost motors is 10-1.. I believe the N/A direct injection motors are like 11-1.. On regular gas..

I test drove a 2010 Taurus SHO.. These things are rated at 365 hp and 350 tq.. The torque peak starts at 1500 rpms..

With those kind of stats, I expected this thing to be a rocket at part throttle.. It's not.. Compared to my wifes supercharged GTP it just doesn't have that kind of "off-idle, part-throttle" torque..

When you floor an SHO from the hole, the power comes on soon and hard.. But it's not a zippy motor at less than full throttle.. In all fairness.. When I made my test drive, I also had the wife, the kid, and a salesman too.. So it was fully loaded..

I wish I could have taken it on the hy-way.. To see how it merges with traffic, getting up to speed.. Cause the wifes GTP in that same situation, is a friggen monster.. Even though it's rated at over 100 hp less than the SHO.. It's the part throttle torque that it puts down that makes it FEEL so powerful..

All that said, I still want an SHO.. Cause they are so dog gone sharp.. Inside and out.. The only downside.. The one I test drove stickered at over 44,000 bucks :jdp: ..

 

Your GTP is a lot smaller car vs the new Taurus too. 3400 lbs vs 4000 lbs.

The new Taurus is much more like a loaded Crown Vic. The Taurus is not sold solely for the
HP and torque as much as for the Fuel Eonomy/ Emissions/ Styling by using the advanced technology of the 3.5L v-6 Engine/ driveline.

Tom Vaught

 

When you look back at some of the big boat Oldsmobiles and Buicks that GM put their 3.8 litre V-6 in.. I'm sure some of them came close to matching the weight of the new Taurus.. But they still had solid, peppy acceleration.. Even with only low 9-1 compression and maybe 200 hp..

Those 2 valve pushrod motors are notorious for lowend torque.. Even though they are dead in the water by 5000 rpms.. That off idle torque gave the illusion of a lot of power.. With the SHO's rating of 350 ft lbs at only 1500 rpms, I thought it would deliver that feeling in spades.. And still have topend pull ..

I drove one of my employers new Impala's.. It's got sharp off idle, part throttle zip.. But any more push pass half throttle doesn't seem to add anymore acceleration..

 

Is it 10 to 1? One of the articles said 12.5 to 1. I've been scratching my head wondering how they pulled 12.5 off.

 

We did not use a large throttle body on the 3.5L engine. The larger the throttle body, the more is seems like engine has a lot of power at low speeds as the mass flow increases quickly at low speeds for any given throttle angle. The Typhoon and the Syclone truck played that game, they both were out of steam by 80 mph.

I would rather do without the games. The 3.5L ecoboost had the highest MPH of any of the test cars on the Loveland Pass high dollar vehicle competition.

http://www.dpccars.com/car-videos-09/10-12-09page-V6-EcoBoost-engine-vs-V8.htm

Tom Vaught

 

You have to have balls of steel to run 109 mph on a road like that..

I'm still trying to figure what that test was about.. Who was the best at cheating death !!

 

Right about the steel Balls deal with the driver.

More info here:

On August 24, 2009, Motor trend and Automobile Magazine conducted a one-of-a-kind race up Loveland Pass, pitting four high-cost, high performance vehicles '“ a Mercedes Benz E550, a Maserati Quattroporte, a BMW 550i, and a Jaguar XF Premium 5L V8 '“ against'¦a 6-cynlinder Lincoln MKS. The race itself is not a straight line story, but a climb up one of the highest passes in America, with the winner determined by the treacherous, winding road with thousand-foot drop-offs and torturous hairpin turns.

http://current.com/items/91366752_t...ted-by-motortrend-and-automobile-magazine.htm

Tom Vaught

ps I look at it as showing credibility of performance, handling, braking, vs much more expensive vehicles with larger engines.

 

Are all of the competition N/A or forced induction? If they were N/A I would have to say the deck is stacked against them as the altitude would be a serious handicap.

 

My understanding was that there was a mix of boosted and NA engines in the testing.

Ford did not run the testing. Automobile Magazine and Motor Trend jointly set up the testing, the location, the driver, the time clocks, the photographers, the helo pilot, and coordination with the Law Enforcement people.

Ford had one guy on site to answer questions about the Ford vehicle.

Tom Vaught

 

Bellman:
I've been watching these closely as the SHO (or maybe Ecoboost Edge) will be our new family car soon.
Just a thought, but the part throttle/throttle response you mentioned may be due to the electronic throttle and torque management strategies in the tune.
There's been at least one guy to run in the 12s with a SHO with just a tune for more boost.
Maybe a tune would address that throttle feeling also.
I really like the potential in the Ecoboost motors and home rumors of a TT Ecoboost V8 for the next GT500 are true
-J

 

If you do get an ECOBOOST vehicle post up your thoughts.

Tom Vaught