I have a galant vr4 with a 2.4, gt37 turbo, yadda yadda, and at 40-42 PSI its a handfull. Even from a roll. With my turbo 2wd v8 stuff, it will just light the tires and at worst require a bit of steering to keep it between the ditches. The Galant will just chatter the tires and before you know it you've gathered so much speed it can get scary.

 

One of my Co-Workers drove the 750 HP Mustang into a ditch after he tried to do a gorilla stomp on the pedal like he was used to doing with his Dual Quad BB Chevy Pick-up Truck. Knocked the spoiler off the car but no real other damage. And he was used to driving HP vehicles on the street.

Cannot imagine him (or Me) trying to drive a 2000+ HP Boosted Car on the street.

Tom V.

 

No me either, that's why I love turbos.
My low boost setting is 400hp
And just push a button and then I'm on 650hp
Driving it on the low boost setting is like driving a very well mannered reliable mild cam car.

 

I would like to hear some more details on this car as this is right my old stomping grounds. I used to race a 90 AWD Talon.

DSM's basically dropped off the face of the earth - don't see them at the track any more, don't see them on the street.

2.4, big turbo and 42 psi sounds excessive - as far as torque for the stock drivetrain anyway.

Al

 

92 galant #508
2.4 block eagle crank, manly turbo tuff rods, weiso's
MLS, T9 studds
Garret gt37 with a modified FP stainless exhaust housing
Ported head
272's
Modified FP coated manifold
3" DP to 4" exhaust
Modified jmf intake
90mm T.B.
Dual fuel, the factory tank runs premium and a small 5 gallon pony tank in the left rear wheel well/trunk area runs c16
Primaries run 850cc injectors the secondary runs ID2000's
Megasquirt mangement, boost control, flat shift, ect

Jax trans, 4 bolt rear, act 2800 disc with the SHD cover, big shaft t-case ect ect.
Its really just a strait forward dsm if you get down to it. The dual fuel is super cool as its a daily drivable car that runs on pump gas until you boot it. No fuel changing, no pumping or any such BS. As the secondaries only kick in at 23 ish PSI and then blend until at around 33-34 where they are handling 100% of the fuel load from then on, you really do not use much race gas. I find myself draining the small tank and running the fuel in my mower because I worry about it going stale more then I use it in the car.

In all this thing really is great. There is some stuff I would change if I did it all over again, buts its pretty frickin awesome. The 40-42 psi I see in the logger depends on the weather.

Things that could be better,
The MS has dual inj drivers so I have to run essentially a two bank system with one bank as primary and one bank as secondary. This makes it filthy at idle according to the 5 gas. So idle quality does suffer some.
Also I'd like to put a different map in the MS. Something with a bit more range.
I never ran a idle control motor due to some issues with the boost killing them so coupled with the above, idle could be alot better
I'd not run the turbo again I don't think. I would like to try an s366 or maybe try a hx40 pro wheel. I'm not unhappy with the 37, but it was expensive and sticking with the dsm flanged stuff was foolish of me i think in hindsight. I was prett young and alot of this was pretty new.
At this power level, its really too much for the chassis and drive train. I quit racing it as it just got to be no fun anymore constantly killing drive parts.
The clutch selection sucks. The 2800 slip[ps a bit if you beat it but the pedal feels good and its easy to drive. I've tried a bunch of other's, the street twins really suck with all kinds of durabilty issues, the newer HD series from act was great for about 2 weeks until the spings in the hunb flew out, then I ran the same no sprung hub and sheared the rivets, I tried a clutch net unit and the splines in the disc stripped. So weather I like it or not, I find myself back at the 2800 with the stupid clutch cover. There just is not enough room in the bell to out enough friction surface.

Also as you mentioned, dsm's dissapeared, and parts are harder and harder to find these days.

I would like to try an auto in this car. I think in all it would make the streetabilty alot
better and be gentler on parts if I track it again. Also alot more consistant as I suck at driving it.

 

I think you’re right on the money looking into autos with that setup. I will say I fought drivetrain issues constantly in my DSM as well. I ran a HX40 on 34lbs on E85. Full street trim AC and all trapping 135 around 3300lbs.


In my case it was mainly a weight thing regarding clutches. Get the lightest weight 4 puck you can in there. After munching about 4 different full face clutches of different compounds and a 6 puck I settled on an unsprung 4-puck from “South Bend”. Using their carbon kevlar compound was the ticket. You could literally fry the clutch and then “break it back in” repeatedly. And the light weight allowed you to shift above 7k without issue. I used a launch assist clutch slipping tool and it was a night/day difference. You just can’t regular the pedal like one of those can. Set a ton of progressive slip into it and you’re golden. No more munched driveline parts. Also went from a 2800 to a 2600 PP. The 4 puck is so much more aggressive engagement wise that the 2600 actually worked better. Easier to street drive as well.

 

My best trap speed has been 141 but that was also no where near my quickest pass. The thing was super inconsistent for me et-wise (my fault I'm sure.) and coupled with alot of broken expensive parts were all reasons I stopped tracking it. Another because the track stewards started to hard time me about the safety gear, I think the mph scared them as my best e.t was only a 10:80 so in all, it spelled the death knell for that cars track outings. I had fun though and i learned a whole bunch, mainly that I had a super fun street car and a horrible drag car lol.
I enetered a couple of hill climb events with it after I stopped drag racing it and it did super well. I think that had as much to do with the rules and how the car fit into them then anything to do with me building a fast car. The hill climb class breaks were really goofy and definitely favored a factory turbo awd car with a full interior.

Its also more fun in the dirt then I can put into words.

 

I had a 90 AWD Talon from 1991 till 2001. I was one of the OG DSM guys, running in the DSM Shootouts from 1995-2000. Made something like 486 passes (still have all the timeslips!).

I ran a stock, small 16G, big 16G, 20G, and FP Red turbo. I set a record (at the time) of 11.78 on the 16G, and ran 10.98 on the 20G, and 10.56@132 on the Red. My best 60' was 1.53.

I had good luck with the Centerforce clutches at the lower power levels, but then switched to an ACT 2600. The disc shredded after 1 pass, and I put in a used Centerforce disk along with the ACT PP. That clutch setup worked great, but I couldn't get the owner of Centerforce to sell me just a disk.

One technique I used (developed by the late Mark Riley of Turbotune) was a line lock on the brakes that was on the same clutch switch as the 2-step. Then as you released the clutch, it would partially engage with the line lock still on to load up the drivetrain. That car launched really smooth! It was really a great car as I also put 106k miles on it. Sold it in 2001.

I agree that an automatic would make the car a more capable drag car, but I think it would be not nearly as fun on the street/dirt track.

Al

 

Well, it was guys like you that made it possible for dipshits like me to have a go at it so thanks.

 

lol!

An old buddy of mine had a white Galant that he used to race - he got it in the real low 11's.

For kicks, I have looked to see if there are any mint, unmolested Talons or Eclipses for sale. Not a one. I am guessing there are a lot of race car shells sitting around that have been parted out.

Al

 

Buddy of mine just latched onto a turbo talon awd. For a thousand bucks. Bone ass stock save for some maintenance parts. Guy finds this shit all the time and pisses me off to no end.

Point being, they're out there. May have to do some backyard or driveway peeping but you can find them. At the dealership some eye popping stuff gets traded in, too. Saw a '69 Nova clean as a pin get traded, it was obviously an heirloom, but the brat had to have a Wrangler.

There's a few on here.


https://cars.trovit.com/used-cars/eagle-talon

 

Thanks. I'm not actually looking for one, just window shopping. The cars that kill me are the highly modified and seemingly nice ones that are 90% complete, the last 10% being something like getting the car tuned on a new standalone system. Just a minor detail, lol!

Al

 

Back to the head porting, unless you are trying to make as much as possible on a given fuel like 93 octane its a waste of money. The stock cathedral casting will flow enough air to exceed its ability to stay sealed. The guy with the SBE 4.8 record is making 1300hp+ on pump E85, A2W, with stock unported 706 heads and a pair of cast S366 turbos. 34psi boost and 8500rpm.

 

On a turbo vehicle, there are many static nuances which provoke power, lets call them nickles and dimes.

The head porting is one dime. Some other nickles, pennies, spare change for comparison:
gate placement
collector shape
exhaust diameter
runner length
cylinder firing order exhaust gas pulse derived approach (twin scroll, equal length, etc)
correctly sized turbocharger (efficiency range as it dictates application)
intercooler core design and piping length/diameters
fuel quality, safety tuning, headroom for error in the timing and a/f
oil system performance (crankcase pressure apparatus i.e. "pcv" & dry sump)
getting a little "ahead" of myself here so...


Each offers a percentage of power, and nothing is ever perfect, so there is always something on the table for a cautious observer, for those who are willing to find and extract it.

I guess what I am saying is, yes porting offers potential, but there are so many other sources it might be best to start with the easiest or most cost effective means first (examine your exact situation), and close in on perfection for each, gradually work your way up until porting becomes the next best/cost effective means of adding some measure of performance.

 

That is some of the best wisdom i've ever seen shared on this site.

 

Agree, very good info on the whole picture of how to do a Turbocharged (or any Boosted Engine Project)
the way that the OEMs do it. To add a couple of line items to the list., which typically only OEMs can afford:
Durability Testing, Emissions Testing, F.E. Testing, Outstanding Designers of the parts, Outstanding Fabricators
of the Prototype parts, and then Real World testing, be it On The Street, Drag Strip, Oval Track, Indy Car, Bonneville,
Le Mans, or Off-Shore Boating.

We ran typically 3 engines (thousands of hours), on the dyno on a several year program
In our Research Building we had 12 climate controlled Dyno Cells for testing.

 

Compressor and turbine maps......
porting changes pressure/back pressure vs airflow = changes efficiency of the 'pkg'.

Can help, can do not much, depends on the variables

Personally......i like airflow and find the compressor/turbines to maximize high volume at lower pressures.

I've used longer duration intake cams to increase exhaust pressures to spool turbo's faster. And ported/high flow intake systems to maximize that pressure differential to get larger compressors to spool.

 

When I was helping the Keen Brothers back in 1998 when they were racing for the Super Street Championship against Billy Glidden, that had a good cylinder head (intake wise). I shortened up the Cam timing for the intake slightly to get better 60 ft times and added a bunch of exhaust timing along with a really good stepped header design and the engine (347 cid) could run 7.50 Quarter Mile times. This was in the late 1990s.

So a LOT of truth in the reply above. In that case we were dealing with only 1/2 of the picture vs a Turbo situation.
I looked for really good compressor maps and fixed the exhaust side by experimentation.

With the turbo systems you need to do a good job on both sides of the Turbo.

Tom V.

ps Jim Keen, his brother Vick, and the team were later Pro Mod Champions one year with a Corvette race car.