cyan...pm sent

 

1. cooler intake , has more density, allows for more ignition power to complete the cylinder spark for ignition, rather than evaporation of water/fuel
2. cooler intake had more tuning effects on intake runner design
3. cooler air takes up less space, hence more o2 in the same volume
4.cooler air help on parts durabity

plus many more..

 

Meth does cool the air making it more dense, but how much air does the vaporized meth displace? Water converted to vapor increases volume by 1600 times. I could not find any info on how much meth expands when vaporized. I have always heard that a motor running methanol carbs needs bigger ports and revised cam numbers because the fuel displaces air. You can't really compare density of air and how much O2 it contains with out knowing how much liquid has been has been evaporated in it. It would take quite an equation to get an accurate comparison.

 

yep, true raise a good point.
data i have from the racepak on the dyno,
i know how much fuel is injected per cylinder, and total gals/min..
i also can logg the temp DROP from turbo outlet, to the cylinder head intake runner...alone with pressure drop due to cooling effect.
i'll try dig up more info, cause that was back in 2005
i do know it was 200+ deg cooling effect with meth, soooo if water is better, thats a plus, but you cannot put that much water into the engine, , it will drown

anyways, water works, it cools the intake charge..i will never use it, as i work rather inject something that will burn, as well as cool
the water also helps keep the chamber clean, like a steam cleaner inside your engine
work with what ever tools/ limits / rules that allow you ..

 

When you guys are talking about meth, are you talking about windshield wiper fluid with methanol, or are you talking about straight fuel?

 

latent heat of evaporation (at boiling point) of water is 2256 J/g, which works out to 971 BTU/lb (2256 x 454 / 1055). so its roughly twice the value for meth and 15 times for gasoline.

now for 100 hp (110 lbs/min of air) if you want to cool the intake charge by 10° K (18° R) you need 200 g/min of water (0.05 gal/min).

by the way, i find it interessting to say, that watter has an infinite octane number. its an unsusuall way to put it, but its true. water wont detonate.

 

Straight fuel. You won't get 200 degrees from WW fluid.

 

There is one catch to this, the higher the pressure that the water is under (not pump or boost pressure, but the pressure inside the chamber before ignition) the higher the boiling point rises and the latent heat of evaporation falls. Here is a link to a good explanation of it http://www.brighthub.com/engineering/mechanical/articles/32893.aspx

The use of actual methanol fuel has always been a turn off for me. I've never wanted a max effort car and searching out a separate fuel seemed like a bit too much effort.

 

gotta love the heat absorbtion of water

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100 bar, 200 bar? you reckon this effect is of any significance at 2 bar? how much is it?

by the way, for ethanol: at 100 hp 536 g/min are going to cool the charge by 10°k. if 100 hp is 110 lbs/min (= 49 500 g/min) and a/f is 9, we get 10% of fuel (5 500 / 536) through ethanol injection is going to cool the intake charge by 10° k. 536 g/min = 0.178 gal/min.

 

100hp = 110lbs/min ?

 

Not sure, I've never had an engine with 2:1 compression. I was talking about the pressure present on the compression stroke.

 

I think he was talking about before the intake valve. After the intake valve it would have pressure lower than intake pressure until about the time the valve closes. During this time the air and surfaces in the cylinder are very hot and the water should quickly turn to vapor. It would be interesting to see pressure and temp data inside the cylinder if anyone has any data to share.

 

I was looking for information similar to this as I've just switched to run on E98 w/o intercooler.

#ad

 

u got heaps of water around the boat ..

 

I ran an A/W intercooler for the last 7 years.
I studied up on latent heat of vaporization and feel that with E98 I am going to get sufficient cooling with just the fuel.

There is not much info on guys running straight Ethanol. It took some searching until I found this funny car that ran straight Ethanol for years and won the title for 5 years against the Methanol cars until they banned Ethanol.
http://www.competitionplus.com/2005_09/mark_thomas.html
55# boost w/o intercooler so my mere 30# boost should be easy.

This would have been impractical for me but I found a local E98 source for pump gas price.

 

we are looking at ethanol next year... i'll have a good look at what it can and cannot do VS methanol

 

I think Ethanol is an amazing fuel (from my limited experience too)and can certainly be run without any intercooling, but methanol is better in almost all respects than ethanol

 

@wantabe: anything wrong with 100 hp = 11 lbs/min? works out to an a/f of 12 and a bsfc of 0.55.

 

Name me some of those aspects.

I have not run Methanol because the extreme fuel consumption is not going to work for me with a lake boat.
I can't take that noxious exhaust either.

I've run E85 for years and it has been great. I can still get good fuel economy out of it and it's readily available. The exhaust smells like Rum.

The latent heat of vaporization is higher with Methanol but still the Ethanol funny car won five seasons against the Methanol cars.