Fiveohwagon's MSII "Help me" thread LC-1 FIXED

So i've been trying to get my car to start and idle for 2 nights now, and my plugs keep getting soaked in fuel.

Setup:
302 SBF
450cc DSM injectors
MSII V3.0 from DIYAutoTune
MSD Distributor w/ magnetic pickup

I Have spark, and the distributor rotor is lined up with cap terminal for cylinder 1 with cyl 1 at TDC compression. I even got the engine to idle for about 10 seconds, but this was with my fuel pump turned off and only running on the fuel that was left over in the cylinders.

I ohmed out my injectors and found 2.1 ohms so i set up the following:
PWM Time threshold= 1.0ms
PWM current Limit %= 30%
2 squirts, alternating
upper req fuel = 9.4
-40F cranking pulse = 8.2
170F cranking pulse = 2.5

I tried leaning out the -40PW to 3 and the 170PW to 1 and it still flooded out on one attempt to start. Also, i noticed that my computer NEVER goes into clear flood mode. I set the threshold to 60, 80, and 90% and even though it shows 100% throttle at the bottom of my megatune window it still says Clear flood off. I asked on the MS forum but i figured there are probably more people with similar setups here than over there.

 

Fiveohwagon's MSII "Help me" thread.

So i got it to idle on it's own, and i definately need to start tuning the ignition aspect of the system. I changed my PWM current limit to 20%, changed the hot PW to 1.7ms and the cold to 5.0. For some reason my clear flood mode starting working too so thats cool.

The only thing i've noticed, that seems troublesome is that my tach is very erratic. Not only is it very erratic on the MSII live display, but my autometer monster tach is very twitchy at idle. It doesn't really bounce when you rev the engine to 2000-3500 RPM. I haven't gotten into the manual too much, but i have the Purple wire from my MSD distributor hooked up to the inside wire of my DIYAutotune harness, and the purple wire is soldered to the outer shielding of the Harness IGN pick up wire. I also tried to isolate the wires from the distributor to the computer from all of the plug wires and MSD driven coil wires. Anything i should look for?

 

Re: Fiveohwagon's MSII "Help me" thread

Wish I could help ya bro. I haven't used low z injectors yet. I have heard the idle is the hardest part to get right. I have heard of people building little resistor boxes and letting the ms control them as if they were regular injectors. I have read that actually helps with the idle.

 

Re: Fiveohwagon's MSII "Help me" thread

First, make sure you've got a good ground to either the battery or the engine block or cylinder head. Grounding the MS to the body or chassis tends to cause noise issues.

If the grounds are OK, try adjusting the VR trim pots to filter out the noise in the RPM signal.

 

Re: Fiveohwagon's MSII "Help me" thread

K, i'll have to try the Pots next time i'm working with it. I ran a ground wire for my sensors and MSII from the battery.

 

Re: Fiveohwagon's MSII "Help me" thread

Well i think i have the base timing setup. When i went into the trigger wizard the number in the large box kept bouncing around because the car wouldn't idle smoothly enough. So i changed all of the bins to 10 degrees, and then set the timing to 10 on the balancer So i should be at 0 degrees base timing. Is this correct?

Other things i've noticed is that my pulse width is still high at idle, i have the hot idle set to 1.5ms but while its running it still shows 3.2ms and its definately running rich. Edit: i'm retarded, i should probably move on to the VE table now that it idles, seeing as what i have at 1.5ms is actually hot cranking pulse width.

Also, what should my base ignition settings be with the the magnetic pick up dist.? I'm still using whatever was on the code when i loaded it. The noise issue seems to be gone as well.

 

Re: Fiveohwagon's MSII "Help me" thread

Changing your settings to 4 squirts alternating will make things idle much better for you (as well as cut your idle PW's in half).

 

Re: Fiveohwagon's MSII "Help me" thread

I use the VE table to cut the idle PWs correct?

 

Re: Fiveohwagon's MSII "Help me" thread

First things first, change your settings to 4 squirts alternating to give you a better idle quality. The result will lower your PW's...which in the end doesn't really matter as long as you have the resolution (which you do). Once you do that, you can go ahead and tune the VE table to achieve a proper idle. Modifying the VE table will alter your PW's as you are adding/subtracting fuel based off your needs.

Remember, the PW is nothing more than the amount of time the injector is open. When you change your settings to 4 squirts alternating you will still be delivering the same amount of fuel as 2 squirts alternating as the engine needs the same amount of fuel either way. The only difference is you can do it in 1 squirt, 2 squirt or 4 squirts. The more squirts, the quicker your injectors will need to open/close to limit the amount of fuel entering the engine.

 

Re: Fiveohwagon's MSII "Help me" thread

Ok, i switched to 4 squirts alternating, and it does idle quite abit better. However, after i set my trigger i developed an issue. The car would start and idle ok, but if you gave it any throttle beyond idle it would pop and act just like the rev limiter was activating. so i loosened my distributor back up and turned it untill it would free rev with out back firing though out the RPM range. Now when i try to start it, it acts like its too advanced and the engine struggles to turn over, but it will start and idle just fine.

 

Re: Fiveohwagon's MSII "Help me" thread

Are you talking about revving the engine or trying to hold a certain RPM?

You will get some bucks and pops accelerating and revving the engine until you get your accel enrichment's set properly (which you shouldn't be doing until your VE table is somewhat accurate).

I should also apologize for my statement on the high-z injectors...as I didn't read some of the previous info stating you are running low-z's. Regardless, 4 squirt should be GTG.

 

Re: Fiveohwagon's MSII "Help me" thread

When i was having the popping/cracking through the exhaust, it was when i gave it ANY throttle at all past idle. Snapping the throttle or very gradually increasing it didn't make a difference. I'm guessing i'll have to set my trigger a different way this time.

 

Re: Fiveohwagon's MSII "Help me" thread

Going to go back at it again tomorrow since i don't work. It idles very well right now, and i'm tempted to see how it goes down the street NOT getting into boost of course

Any tips on how i should divy up the VE table for boost? I have read you should atleast do 4 bins, but i was thinking maybe 5 and make the map side look like:

240
211
184
156
128
101
90
80
70
60
40
20

 

Re: Fiveohwagon's MSII "Help me" thread

The more bins you have in boost, the less refined your n/a table is going to be. What I mean is, there is more of a chance that something won't be quite right somewhere else due to a bin not being available.

If you don't plan on running several different boost levels, I'd stick with the fewer.

Here is how mine looks...

#ad

 

Re: Fiveohwagon's MSII "Help me" thread

Do you have any data logs of the problems you could share, along with an MSQ?

 

Re: Fiveohwagon's MSII "Help me" thread

I will make a data log as soon as i get it hot and running today. Can i see a shot of your timing table too millhouse?

 

Re: Fiveohwagon's MSII "Help me" thread

#ad

 

Re: Fiveohwagon's MSII "Help me" thread

OK! So i figured out what i did wrong. When i set my trigger, i moved the distributor, when i was supposed to adjust it with the + and - sign in the trigger wizard. However i ended up stopping at 61 lol. So I have a feeling like my distributor is off by a tooth?

It revs fine, runs good, the big box in the tuning wizard matchs the timing light. It does crank a little hard still but it fires fairly quickly.

I don't think it will let me attach a MSQ file on the forum, where should i send it?

 

Re: Fiveohwagon's MSII "Help me" thread

Getting tempted to drive it. (In a conservative manner of course)

 

Re: Fiveohwagon's MSII "Help me" thread

Well, thank you VERY much millhouse. I loaded in your VE and spark table and i made it around the block no problem. Once i hit 3000 RPM it breaks up a little bit but i suspected i would need to tune it further, but your tables seem to be a great base!

However my megatune keeps freezing to the point where i have to restart windows, and its doing it quite frequently... Any ideas?