What does it take to make reliable power out of a 351w? I dont have the funds or skill to build a wild 408/427, I just wanted to know from past experiences on here what people have gotten to work and what lasts? I don’t have access to an old 70s block either. Just trying to learn from past experiences what others have had good luck with. Car currently has a 351 so that is why I chose that option as well as how the previous owner had things setup with the on3 turbo.

Looking for street use, not the drag strip and sadly would have to be on pump 93. I would be relying on the turbo to make power as well with the combo.


If building one, would you take a chance with a basic roller(94 block)bottom end and attempt a build with a custom grind cam(fti), the best heads you could afford at the time(afr or 11r), systemax or box r intake? I would also likely upgrade the affordable turbo to a 7875 if I was looking to make changes in the setup.

Or would you go for a built dart sb built with what you have sitting around?

How do you guys choose one way or the other? Funds are limiting me from buying a built longblock 408, but could I get near the same results for maybe a couple grand less if I half assed it and took a bigger chance with the roller bottom end?

I’m just getting some price ideas and labor to try and think about the future with this.


Thanks guys!

 

How much hp do you want to make? Big cid doesn't always equal reliable, it has its own set of issues depending on how far you want to go. Unless you overkill everything there will always be a weak link.

 

I don’t have a set goal. I was looking into backup plans or getting an idea on price if my current setup let’s go.

What does it take to make 650-700 on 93 through a th400? Wasn’t trying to go big cubes, I just figured a 408 or 427 setup would give me more torque down low and a touch of an easier path with less boost needed from the turbo to reach that area of numbers.

 

Any 351w will do. Add good heads,intake,cam and boost it. I'm hitting my completely stock 95 shortblock with 19psi.

 

Wow. I was making an attempt to have a backup plan in case we go boom. I was trying to get an idea of costs and what works.

What would your build consist of if you were in my shoes or close?

 

A lot of good info here: https://www.theturboforums.com/threads/lets-see-those-stock-block-351w-turbo-combos.327860/


Sorry have to cut/paste. Don't know what you have to on here to post a link!

 

Just checked it out and read through the pages. Lot of people have success with those early blocks. Need to do more research on newer and more available options.

 

A HCI 351 would be better .the block and rods would be the weak link. If you make 350 na hp 15psi will double your hp .if you upgrade the rotating assembly All those stroker parts would be destroyed if the block cracks. The more cubes the larger the turbo you'll need too. You ever consider going LS?

 

I’m a ford guy with a gm transmission from previous owner. I will not go ls.

So a good bet would be just a 351 and not go with a sb 408?

Any guesstimates what these upgrades could bring?

Trickflow stage 1 cam to custom grind fti(for my turbo and street car specs). I know I don’t have any grind specs. Just thinking what is possible.

Old trickflow 170s to either 11r 190 or AFR 205 non emissions?

Gt40 intake to box r or systemax? I think I have a ported lightning upper on now. I like the look of the gt40.

These are probably more ford specific questions. But you guys know so much on here.

I don’t have a link ready, but I was looking at some pricing options with tre performance and they have a price list if you wanted to upgrade some specs of a 351

 

The GT40 will be the restriction in that combo. If you want 650-700HP like you posted above, you'll need a diff intake and a bit more cam.

More reading for ya: https://www.theturboforums.com/threads/1980-notch-351-s480-8-11-13-9-73-140.358359/

 

351 with 220-225cc heads would work nice with a custom turbo cam Did you think about the trickflow 351R intake?

 

Will add it to my notebook of stuff to look into. Thanks. I thought those heads would be too big for a 351 setup. Shows my lack of knowledge.

 

For a turbo engine 220-225s will work well.
The long runner R series upper would help with low end torque over the box R. They both use the same lower so later down the road you can swap to a box R upper.

 

I wouldn’t waste your time trying to make power NA. You don't need stellar top end package IMO.

Key is to keep the cyl pressure down near PK TQ. Slap on any alum head with a decent deck and Keep the compression down (8:1-9:1) lower the better IMO. Match the cam to your intake and head package whatever it may be. Ensure the turbo is sized properly to operate with the top end without crazy amounts of back pressure. Run a good meth injection kit... and limit timing a ton (single digits) near PK TQ. Then ramp it back in after. Also remember RPM is your friend. More you can run after PK TQ the better. Low RPM and big boost breaks things quick.

Look at 713runabout’s thread.
https://www.theturboforums.com/threads/1980-notch-351-s480-8-11-13-9-73-140.358359/

 

The tuner was actually pissed because I had very low compression heads with this past setup. He was claiming that was a main reason we made such little power.

I believe the turbo is too small for the engine, but that’s what comes with the kit lol. I don’t know why on3 would sell a 351 kit with the 70mm unless it worked. Money obviously being a factor over quality and figment with on3. I like the low end spool with the small turbo, and I’m sure it is limiting power though. I have some real old Trickflow 170s that don’t even have their name stamped on them.

What’s strange with my post is that I am getting replies saying I don’t need that much. However, my combo without some good parts here and there made less than 485 on 93.


These past few weeks I have been trying my best and failing to close two small exhaust leaks after the Dow pipes and into 90 degree elbow. Packed the shit out of it with copper rtv and it still makes that clicking sound and I can feel the hot exhaust air near the top coming out. Any ideas with this?

I am trying to the best of my ability just to get the car running on the road and have some smiles with my nephew while we still can.

 

Compression makes power, no doubt. But it also bumps the cylinder pressures way up at like boost levels. Which makes it more likely to detonate and damage SBE parts... Especially when you are octane limited.

Boost is more efficient than compression, period. Otherwise we would all just run 25:1 compression engines and wouldn’t need the turbo.

You are only getting 3-4% at best going form say 9:1 To 10:1. Yet each pound of boost you run usually nets around that. So take a point hit on compression and run another 10-12lbs of boost and you’ll be miles ahead. There’s always a tradeoff, I’m not saying we should all run 6:1 Engines and 100lbs of boost. But you’ll be able to make more power with less heat in the cyl at lower compression.

You’ll lose a little bit of response this way. To combat this you can run a looser converter. Good hot side design and the right turbo will make all the difference. That turbo is way too small to make “BIG power” on a 351. It makes an honest 500 crank I’d bet and spools fast which is enough for most. I’d guess this why it’s included in the kit. Personally I wouldn’t’ even bother with a T4 turbo on a V8. Grab a box stock S475 with the 1.32 T6. I’m spooling the big S480 1.32 T6 on my 292 cube engine no problem.

 

I'd rock what you got with decent management.
By the sound of it you have not had a chance to even really drive it with the "super duper, lame, low, disappointing, woah as me, my engine sucks, my friends laugh at me, wont idle, cant drive, pathetic, embarrassing, making me regret my life choices, 480HP at the tire engine" (wich would probably click low tens BTW if you put any tire on it)

The highest speed, lowest drag way to get there is put some decent management on it and street tune the stupid thing as is.

 

If I can save enough funds, get a local guy to help wi5 the wiring and parameters, this may be a future option.

 

No wireing other then the wide band and maybe the map depending on how you do it. Just buy the plug and play. If you get a sensor that acts up, then you will be able to see it in the log and fix the issue. That's the beauty of this whole thing is you can see whats going on. Now you can't. It might have a tps problem, it might not. You have no idea right now. Aside from maybe a few issues with the connectors (the most of which no longer get used) I bet the harness itself is fine.
As far as the settings and whatnot they will come with a base file in them that will at least pop off the engine.
Grab a wideband, wire it to the aux port or the stock o2 wire, set your req fuel for your injectors, run the ve table generator so your tables have a usable axis on them, fire it up, hold the revs till warm, set you afr table to 13 out of boost, and 11 in boost, turn on ve analyze live, set the cell change resistance to easy throw the laptop at your nephew in the passenger seat and limp it around till the table starts to tell you what it wants. (huge plus here, your actually driving this thing!!!) After you get a realistic airflow model in the VE table you can fuck with idle, leaning it out at cruise, blending afr with load, adding or taking timing, rev limits, and all the other little things, but that gets you driving it with at least a window into what the fuck is going on. At this point you can find a guy to tune it if you don't want to, or you can keep on it yourself if you started to get a feel for it. Even if you have a guy do it, it will be WAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY better as your not paying to pull chip, flash chip, install chip, run till closed loop, make pull, look at and analyze some 8 bit datalog (if he has one even), change tune file in sct, remove chip, flash chip, install chip, start engine, run till closed loop, yadda yadda yadda. Half the dyno "time" you paid for was for some guy watching a progress bar as the chip is flashed. With real time management, its "hey look! Its rich there!" down arrow 4-5 times "hey look! its fixed there!" then on to the next area on the table.

Did you ever tell us where you were? You anywhere around the pacific NW? At this point there has been more keyboard pecking on the forum then needed to make this thing run awesome, LOL. I would totally offer some dyno time and a bit of direction for a case or two of frosty cold ones to see you get this thing on the road.

 

Northern Illinois. The keyboard pecking is great man, it gives me something to look forward to go on the forum here.