anyone ever heard of these "Turbonique Drag Axle" microturbine engines used in the 50s and 60s? its pretty much a small turbine engine bolted on to the rear on the diff and can be turned off and on at will. they were banned in NHRA and put out ridiculous amounts of power and would tear apart slicks. yet i think if that idea can be refined and hp levels limited to a safe level and use fuels than are more readily availible, there just might be hope. i would like to hear some thoughts from you guys, discuss... :hmm:

here are some links to their background
http://www.tunersgroup.com/TunerWire_Live/Turbonique.html
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_0403_turbonique/index.html
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/chassis/0512_hrdp_turbonique_drag_axle/index.html

here is some text from HOTROD magazine


"Turbonique was founded in the '50s by Gene Middlebrooks of Orlando, Florida. A former aerospace engineer, Middlebrooks believed that microturbine engines could replace piston engines in drag racing and many industrial and recreational applications. In a 1967 Turbonique catalog, he wrote, "Turbonique's goal of stripping the military price tag from power turbines has at last become a reality through the introduction of the low-cost microturbine."

So what is a microturbine? Simply stated, it's a small version of a gas turbine with one major difference: special Thermolene monopropellant fuel. The term monopropellant describes a fuel that will ignite and burn without the presence of atmospheric oxygen. As a point of comparison, the nitromethane used in Top Fuel dragsters is a semi-monopropellant. It requires a little outside oxygen for complete combustion, but only a small fraction of what is required to burn gasoline, alcohol, or kerosene. Most gas turbines run on petroleum-based fuels that require plenty of air to support combustion. They take in atmospheric air at the front and compress it to a high temperature and pressure. Fuel is then sprayed into this hot air, which ignites, creating the high-pressure gases that drive the turbine wheel and make torque. The problem is that a typical air-breathing gas turbine uses over half of its total turbine power to drive the compressor. Turbonique engineers sidestepped the problem and simply replaced the weighty, expensive, and inefficient compressor with a high-pressure storage bottle containing Normal Propyl Nitrate (Thermolene), a stable, milk-white liquid fuel that brings its own oxygen to the party and that moves the engine into the category of a rocket because it can run without the benefit of atmospheric oxygen. When the Thermolene is introduced to the combustion chamber at 600 psi and ignited by a glorified spark plug connected to an on/off switch, the immediate result is an intense release of hot gases to spin the turbine blades. Anti-swirl turbine wheel vanes prevented flames from exiting the tailpipe, but a special wheel was optional for "spectacular flaming night runs."

 

Yep, a friend of mine bought the whole axle deal. He was ready to install it in a dragster, unfortunately his wife filed for divorce about the same time for other reasons. Never finished the deal and later sold it. I looked at the stuff several times. Kind of like the Dumb A$* (with the Camaro and the Jato Rocket) story.

Once you push the button you were along for the ride until it stopped making power. Stuff did work though.

Tom Vaught

 

ive dreamed about owning one of those for years. would be a great sleeper once

 

i think the hp level just needs to be limited and controlled progressively to be effected, i wonder if one of these can still be bought and for how much. it would make for a interesting project.

 

I've read about this before and it's probably one of the cooler things to come out of early drag racing.

Love to see one go in person.

 

http://www.the-rocketman.com/myth.html

http://www.vaiden.net/rocket_gokart.html

http://www.tunersgroup.com/TunerWire_Live/Turbonique.html

 

I think the rocket powered supercharger is the way to go

 

well theres a big difference between the turbine powered drag axle and the mini rocket engine. i think the drag axle is much more practical

 

the axle is a rocket too (no air needed for the fuel to burn).

 

Man, this actually sounds like an awesome idea. They said it had too MUCH power lol. Think of the possibilities had it kept evolving until today....

 

i'll take two.

 

My buddy sold the Rocket Axle he had (with fuel pellets) for 2K many years ago. It was brand new.

I would have liked to see that thing go under his RED (Rear Engine Dragster) he bought years later. I bet a system would bring big bucks on the collector market today.

Tom Vaught

 

A throttle of some kind or a "detuned" version might have allowed them to get a car to hook. Pretty smart delievering power right into the axle. Bypasses several drivetrain failure points. Looks like they auctioned a Galaxie 500 with one last year. Wonder how much it fetched.

http://jalopnik.com/373531/for-sale-turbonique-rocket-drag-axle-equipped-1964-ford-galaxie-500

Had this taken off, perhaps today's NOS filling stations would be Thermolene filling stations.

 

I heard that it snapped pinions pretty easily and just lunched the whole rear end.

 

lots of wheel speed and shortend stock axles snapped without having one back then.

 

Rockets and turbines aside for a moment, what issues would be involved with injecting Thermolene into an piston engine, in much the same way you inject nitrous+fuel to boost output. Looks like the self-ignition temperature is only 190degC, so I'm thinking that as soon a a bit of Thermolene goes past the intake valve and touches a hot bit of piston or exhaust valve it is going to ignite before the intake valve is closed . . . .

http://pdf.aiaa.org/preview/1980/PV1980_1293.pdf

 

Thats too neat how simple it is. That would be cool if they setup a manual ignition system though kind of like a throttle body and an additional pedal in the car. Say they made the throttle bodies from like 100,300,500,750,1000,1500,2000, and 2500 hp versions which would add that number on top of the power the car already makes. Just get a bigger throttle body and inject more fuel to get more power. That would be crazy if they actually did that and let mike moran get ahold of the 2500 hp throttle and put it on his 3700 hp 572 tt. Hed have a 6200 hp turbo big block.

 

That stuff was $6 / gallon in 1980. Ouch.

 

Yeah, but that was probably pretty cheap as monpropellant liquid rocket fuels go.

Not only is the autoignition temp about 75°F lower than gasoline, I would expect it to become pretty unstable at elevated pressures and temps. From what I could find, IPN is an insensitive explosive, but still has a det speed around 5400m/s. It also appears to sensitize hydrocarbons, so not only is the IPN a potential explosive, it would probably have a large negative effect on motor octane if used as a secondary fuel in a gasoline engine.

 

At first I thought this was the old car engine I saw on one of those "Ideas that didn't work with cars" shows. The same show had the car that could turn into a boat and a car that could fly as well. This is going to drive me crazy.... I'm still at work so that is driving me crazy. I wonder if they ever tried to restrict the combustion area so that only a small amount could burn at a time. After a while of burning a secondary area/volume would instead be used for propulsion... I don't even know if that sounds right. I guess, kind of like rocket boosters/smaller rockets, or turbines in this case, used at first and then the big boy. Probably not a good idea....