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EBC routing, Race vs Fuel Economy vs Wear n Tear.

Discussion in 'Newbie and Basic Turbo Tech Forum' started by Stealth, Mar 4, 2017.

  1. Stealth

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    Once upon a time, after significant searching with very limited progress'¦

    I have a nearly stock 92 Dodge Stealth TT with a few bolt ons, a hand full of mods to keep it alive, and the common major reduction in emissions related clutter, & also a
    Greddy Profec B electronic boost controller.

    Greddy wants signals from the manifold to the back of the controller, which is mounted by the driver, and from, maybe halfwayish between the turbo and throttle body, to the WG, according to their diagram. For Stealths, 3000GTs and GTOs, usually people route the controller signal from the manifold (Tee'd w FPR), and WGs line from right before the throttle body (Y pipe). '¦.. And so, from the moment max boost enters the intake manifold, pressure has to travel over 4ft of small hose to get the controller to open the solenoid, then from the solenoid box, more feet of small hose, split thru a Tee, and 2 ideally equal lengths of hoses that are easily over a foot long each, before opening the wastegates and diverting exhaust.
    ~Right away, I'd like to reduce the 7+ feet of signal hose down to as close to zero as possible. Also, having the controller sense pressure in the manifold instead of before the throttle body is probably not very nice to the turbos after WOT, right? Anways with other vehicles, I've seen the pressure sensor connected before & after throttle body, and the solenoid for the waste gate pressure port on the turbo & the intake manifold and anywhere between, and hoses for each ranging in length from millimeters to meters'¦

    So ideally, this is kinda what i'm thinking;
    -Set the Profec to 13-14psi on a bench (14 is the highest safe psi with stock intercooler/fuel).
    -Signal it from right before the throttle body, not in the manifold
    -& Mount it under the hood by the throttle body, so the hose is under an inch long.
    -Buy 2 industrial grade 12v 3 way (switch to 2 way?) normally open solenoids, probably from ebay ($4-5)
    -Mount them less than an inch from waste gate nipple.
    -Signal them from a new port, an inch or 2 after their respective turbo

    I believe this would allow me to set the profec all the way to sharp (duty cycle?), provide temperature and pressure air of a better quality to the engine, and be nicer to the turbos both from a faster WG response and not having to slam overboost into the closed throttle body after WOT when the controller thinks its at <14psi due to manifold vacuum.


    However, I need more information
    -I can't find any information on how the Profec B is programmed. Not sure if it thinks/remembers/compensates on its own or if its just a pressure sensor. Ideally, I won't make new ports by the turbos or change in suggested routing before getting this crucial info.
    -I THINK the removal of what could be like 10ft of vacuum/pressure signal hose would have a nice impact, but I don't know how fast air travels. Perhaps when the WG opens the pressure would drop so quickly directly after the turbo, that the WG would close immediately only to open milliseconds later and so on, thus over working parts.
    -I can't find any information online in regards to making simple adjustments of a turbo set up to achieve better fuel economy vs race wins vs low wear etc. Besides having short signal hoses and a good tune etc, I believe the placement of these sensors could/should have a definitive impact, especially when paired with a driver that understands whats happening for each. '¦ Short of installing sensors on all the moving parts and basically renting a dyno for a few weeks to test WOT, highway speeds, gas mileage, etc'¦ . . . ...

    -Idk the volume of the car's intake piping, or the CFM of the turbo's or engine at various RPMs, etc. I figure once I know how the Profec thinks etc, I'll be better able to approach this without generating useless calculations.
    -After all the math, stock engine ECU might not respond well to the TB-controller signal nor the WGs opening from so close to the compressor. Heck, the old WGs might fail from getting the pre intercooler signal.

    Abstractly, with the EBC pressure sensor close or far away from either pre or post throttle body, and with the solenoid close or far from its WG and who's pressure source is near or far from the compressor or throttle body, is one better? Where, with which, when, and why?


    ~If the pressure sensor is from the manifold, the turbo should remain boosting between shifts after WOT, thou its hard on the turbo's.
    If a WG signal comes from way up by the throttle body, it will reach the WG fastest if the solenoid is close to the WG. But if instead the solenoid is close to the throttle, the car will waste less air pressurizing the line constantly. But the controller leaves solenoids alone if it doesn't see pressure itself. Placing a short signal as close as possible to the turbo and WG would be more efficient by that standard. Or one could put a normally closed solenoid at the source for the EBC and WG signal ports, left closed when clearly never over boosting, and opened with a sensor or by the driver with a switch.


    Before I inevitably buy a set of intake pipes, make new ports to fit an unknown number of normally closed solenoids to turn my car into a frankenstine of relays and pneumatic hoses of different lengths and sizes routed to an equal number of normally open solenoids and 1 Profec b, and use my data logger to see if and when which set up is best, who knows what?

    Well, this is my first thread on this forum. Thanks for reading, and double to all who can contribute.
     
  2. B E N

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2016
    I think your overthinking this...
    That is the job of the blow off valve, it would seem keeping the WG closed between shifts would benefit you as far as re spooling time for the next gear.

    Your concern about the length of the vacuum line is unnecessary, the signal will be almost instantaneous at either point.

    Hook it up per MFG instructions (they thought it through thoroughly i'm sure). Go and enjoy the new power.
     
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