I have a single turbo kit (T76) that I purchased from Hellion and I want to keep the factory air to water intercooler. Does anyone know how efficient is the factory air to water intercooler on a 2004 Cobra daily driver? I want to make around 700hp at the wheels. Any information or comments will be appreciated.

 

Well aren't there people making 700HP with KBs and the stock lower manifold and A/W IC core?

 

well lets put it this way..

If you weight the two power adders effciency, you can get a general idea of the heat output from each.
The KB or especially the factory Eaton are going to produce extreme heat, and the cooler seems to do well even so. Considering the turbocharger is ran within it's effciency range, you should actually gain a little efficiency in the cooler, over the Eaton or KB. I would say you need not to concern yourself too much with the factory cooler at those power levels. If anything, you may want to look at the heat exchanger, but that should be fine as is.

 

And there was a Turbo kit that uses the stock A/W IC along with ATI's Procharger kit for the 03/04.

 

I would consider upgrading the electric water pump that feeds the intercooler with something that flows a bit more.

 

The electric water pump is actually pretty efficient, the best thing you can do is upgrade the heat exchanger and even more so to add capacity to your system. There are lots of aftermarket reseviors that hold upwards of 2 gallons in comparison to the crappy 1 litre or so that the factory one holds. I have owned an 03 with a KB and 19lb pulley (video of me racing TK on a closed course on this site) the car made 600 at the tire with that heat pump of a power adder on it....

I've seen a few Cobras and Lightnings both that have used the factory water to air with good results/much cooler charge temp than what you would see running the charger. There are a couple companies that make a hat for the Cobra intake. Search google and/or try PTK, I think they make on for the Cobra. I know they do for the Lightning.

My longwinded .02

 

in Richard Holdener's Making 4.6 and 5.4 power on the dyno book (or whatever its called) he showed how much more power there was to be had by using a 99 cobra intake (stock, unported IIRC) over using the cobra intercooler system... and it was alot. The runners on the 03 cobra intake are waaay too short to make power... so you might want to look into buying a used intake.

 

Was he using the 99 Cobra intake by itself, or with some sort of intercooler?

Mark

 

IIRC it was just replacing the intercooler with a cobra intake, no a/a ic. I will check tonite though.

Holdener is a major advocate for long runner length, he writes an article ortwo about it every year it seems.

 

This will help me plan for the time when I eventually yank the Roots blower off and install a turbo with a sheetmetal intake. However, it seems to me that the benefits of a short runner air-water IC would outweigh a non-IC long-runner intake up until the point that the IC becomes an airflow restriction (especially at the drags, where I can run icewater).

Mark

 

I'll have to get that article up for you later tonite/tomorrow morning.

 

Those tests were done with an '03/'04 intake with the intercooler either removed or not connected to a water supply compared to a '99/'01 intake. I thought it was a procharger or vortech test but could have been with the turbo.

 

Oh, I definitely agree that it would suck to use the zero-runner 03/04 Cobra intake without the intercooler hooked up (as I'm doing now, but it's a temporary situation). The whole point of it is to have the intercooler working, and with a Roots blower sitting on top of it (as stock), making low-end power is a non-issue, since boost is delivered right off the bat. It would be horrendous to use that intake, with the intercooler disabled, on a naturally aspirated setup (I'm talking street cars now, not a 12,000-rpm race engine).

I can see where Vortech or Procharger would bitch about using the 03/04 Cobra intake as well. We all know that the power delivery curve of their precious centrifugal blower sucks (nap-worthy), and the lack of a long-runner intake definitely works against them on a street car. That would definitely be a very peaky combination. although it might be a little friendlier to make traction with if the tires and suspension aren't up to the task.

With a turbo feeding the 03/04 intake, I would be less concerned about lack of low-end power. As long as you don't go overboard on the turbo (nobody here would do that lol), it will spool quickly enough (not as quickly as a Roots, but worlds better than a centrifugal blower) and be a fun ride all around.

Mark

 

You are right, it was a vortech test, not a turbo... my bad. The i/c was in there, but not hooked up to a water system, it would seem. No specific mention was made either way, but I dont see any hoses etc in the pics, to an external heat exchanger.


I know the pic sucks, but you get the idea...

#ad

 

The text says... in case you cant read it...

(Upper Graph)
Vortech Intake vs. 01 cobra intake

Vortech intake :
756 hp @ 6600 rpm

2001 Cobra intake:
815 hp @ 6600 rpm

Largest Gain:
74 hp @5700 rpm

Vortech intake vs 2001 cobra intake: (hp)
What can you say about a ong runner intake change that adds power (nearly 75 hp from 3500 all the way up to 6600 rpm? Installing a 2001 cobra intake in place of the fabricated upper intake (part of Vortech's 03/04 cobra blower upgrade) resulted ina significant jump in power, thanks to the increase in runner length. ATI also offers a similar kit for the 03-04 Conras and the results would be similar in their kit as well. Ultra short runners will always cost power.

(graph 2)

Vorteh intake vs 01 Cobra intake

Vortech intake:
612 ft/lbs @6100 rpm

2001 Cobra intake:
663 ft/lbs @6600 prm

Largest Gain:
70 ft/lbs @ 5700 rpm

Vortech intake vs 2001 cobra intake (torque)
Who couldnt use a solid 70 ft/lbs of torque or a solid 30 ftlbs from 4500 rpm to 6500 rpm? Runner length improves cylinder fillng, even on forced induction applications. Someone who is telling you otherwise has either never been on a dyno or is trying to sell you something.

 

It's a real shame that they didn't do a 3rd test with the intercooler active on that system, I'm willing to bet that it would have evened up the playing field pretty well.

Regardless you have to keep in mind that you won't be driving one and then the other back to back and I'm pretty sure that you'll do just fine with the '03/'04 intake and cooler as a starting point. Plus it will easily be cheaper than it would be to sell it and buy a '99/'01 and an air/air cooler. Those '99/'01 intakes are getting $650 or more used and the '03/'04 stuff is pretty cheap by comparison right now.

 

I agree. I dont understand why they seem to skip those things on these tests, I mean, if you are going to spend the time to set the engine up on the dyno, you may as well make everything as accurate as possible... and no one is going to disconnect their a/w ic on their car, if there is no reason to.

And I would have to agree, it is pretty likely that the a/w ic running could have out done the cobra intake.

 

I'd like to see that test with a turbo on the 03/04 intake, and not the Vortech. Something that can make boost quicker than a centrifugal blower ought to be able to offset the short runner length situation. Besides, we all know that it's the "area under the curve" that really matters, and that's where a turbo setup would smoke the peaky Vortech into the weeds.

I guess, realistically, there just isn't enough time to test every possible intake/power adder combination in articles like these. But, it does prove a good point about long runner vs short runner intakes, with each extreme being represented. You can't get much shorter than an 03/04 Cobra intake, whose only runner length is in the heads, and virtually none in the intake.

Mark

 

The same theory should apply, that is a centri makes more power up top, where the boost is, a turbo car should make more power down low, where the boost is too, right? It would help offset it, but I would bet that a turbo car will still make a heap more power ata loq rps with a long runner intake than with the short runner.

In all honesty... IF I had an engine dyno, I would LOVE to take a week, and throw a 03 cobra motor on there, with every compination of components that I could get my hands on... just to see what it would do. a week every two months. Think of the infformation you could gather!