Quad turbo 1968 Plymouth Fury (EFI JY 400" BBM)(Vids p. 6)

Just testing out the new camera - lemme know what you think:

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Butterfly turned from some old 3.5" stainless we had laying around. Actual size after cleanup is just under 88mm (~3.460"). If you look carefully, the kicker is the 6 degree angle I turned it on (after I made a special arbor for it - you can kind of see it in this pic). It sits in the bore like so, and when you hold it up to the light, this is what air will see at the perimiter:

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Here's the giant block of 7075 I found laying around. It's almost the perfect size - a tiny bit small, but it was free. Right now it's ground square on all 6 sides and has the bore and counterbore for the inlet stack (not pictured). Final shaping and bearing journals should happen this week. Also the custom shaft I made, which uses the factory O-rings at the bearings, as well as the TPS, cam shaped actuator (good for tip-in), and return spring. The sidearm will also allow me to ditch the jungle gym kickdown affair for a more conventional cable setup. Whoopee! I have to make a new shaft though, since our senile old Bridgeport made a joke of my finely turned blank.

More later! Oh yeah, I milled the name off this old eBay intake - if whats his name would spend time developing a B/RB manifold with EFI bungs (or hell, just some bosses that you could drill out) instead of worrying about how many boats he could buy with his publicly offered stock, I could be spending time doing something else! Hahaha, okay rant off.

 

Re: Intake / throttle body spy photos

heh jeez that blade looks exactly like my Solidworks made one. Does the angle gradiate out to 0 towards the throttle shaft ends? If that intake is an edelbrock then actually their victor 383 and 440 have casting bosses for nitrous that could be used, plus they actually produce an EFI manifold now (not sure if available seperately yet tho). Looks nice tho .

Edit: well pic isn't too clear, but same thing. Think it only has like a 3 or so degree angle tho.

 

Re: Intake / throttle body spy photos

Thanks!

Yeah, I've seen the nitrous bosses they include on intakes - I don't think they're "meaty" enough to actually stick an injector in, but maybe I'm wrong. Also, the last time I looked (at least 3 years ago, haha), they only had an RB-dedicated EFI intake. And, who knows if they sell them separately.

Right, the angle tapers back as it gets closer to the shaft - I turned the blade on a round bar that has a 6 degree face milled into it. I calc'd 6 degrees from the Ford blade so I went with it, but your 3* should work too (as long as it "breaks away" from the bore cleanly). Hey wait, I thought you were just going to buy some?

Also, I was thinking of making a "starter" hole (0.050") on one side of the blade since this thing is going to seal really tightly to the bore. I don't want to have it cracked so I'm at 1/2 of my TPS value at idle, right? Think it's a good idea?

 

Re: Intake / throttle body spy photos

wells ya shoulda used a victor 383, so :raz:. As far as the hole, not sure what you mean, depends on how much the motor needs to idle, but with a huge blade like that I can't imagine it'll need to crack more then a few degrees?

 

Re: Intake / throttle body spy photos

Yeah, as I suspected:



Those are nitrous bosses and not even close to being thick enough to machine directly and hold an injector. Unless that's an old pic, that thing would need just as much doctoring as my $50 eBay turd (and hey, I get real runners as a freebie!).

There are a handful of pictures of a MP B/RB intake in the Larry "I can put your 2600lb car in the 11s - no sweat" Shepard book that has a injector-specific pad cast into it. I can't find it anywhere. I think Indy has one too, but I hear they're pricks, and I don't have $400 for an intake. Besides, why buy crap when you can make better stuff cheaper?

More pics - fresh out of our vintage Bostomatic 312:
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Edit - yeah, good point on the large blade not needing to be cracked very far open to keep the motor going.

 

Re: Intake / throttle body spy photos

And I thought I was the only one goofy enough to build my own throttle bodies! I cant tell by the picture, but did you off-set the shaft to bias throttle closiing? This is an important thing to consider, if the shaft is in the center of the blade, the throttle will flutter under high vacuum conditions. Ask me how I know....
Also, be sure to MECHANICALLY DAMAGE the protruding thead of the blade fastening screws! Loctite-shmoctite. Again, ask me how I know...
Your stuff is looking good, It all looks so familiar to me!

 

Re: Intake / throttle body spy photos

Wow!!! Now THAT is why it pays to hang out around here! I had not thought of that, and it isn't too late to chop it with an offset....how much is enough? The shaft has an O.D. of ~0.393 (10mm) and the biggest hole down the center is .250 - whatever that chord is after the 0.125" slot is milled (or EDM'd?) minus .250 gives me my max offset (a healthy 0.100" or so?). And of course, bias it *toward* the stop right?

Yes, I was going to run a real small drill through the protruding end of the screws (like Ford did) and mash them together. Ouch - did you get away with that one without serious wreckage?

Thanks for the tips!!! The best part is - I get to do it ALL OVER AGAIN when I make my tunnel ram. Sweet! :shock:

 

Re: Intake / throttle body spy photos

*best german engineering accent* veeeeery interesting Trendz, wouldn't have thought of that. Perhaps you didn't have enough throttle spring on it?

And Anthony my point about the intake is not for fuel injector bungs, it's just not a errrr how do I say this delicately, POS dual plane made for EGR ? The victor is a nice straight up single plane, about as close as equal runner distribution as you're gonna get. Keep in mind they're all designed for carbuerators (wetflow). Mine has an m1 with not ideal air distribution, if I were doing it today with a cast intake it'd be either a victor 440, that E-brock EFI manifold (if I went to the factory and stole one ) or one of the Indy's....

 

Re: Intake / throttle body spy photos

hell since your going all out on this why not make an air bypass screw, with that big of a blade the slightest movement will be a lot of air, but you could machine a bypass hole around it and use a tapered screw to adjust idle. A lot of aftermarket mustang throttle bodies do that, just a thought. I have a small lathe and mill, sure wish i had the experience to turn out stuff like you've made, did you make the fuel rails from scratch??

 

Re: Intake / throttle body spy photos

Hahahaha, sure, pick on the guy with the EGR (the passage has been totally obliterated btw, hahaha). Yeah, I know I know I know, wet flow dual plane bad, wet flow single plane better. In my defense:

A - Have you seen the many turbomustangs with Stock / Stock type intakes, which make a wicked left hooks and tweaks before arriving at the valve? Not saying it's right or the best, but, I have a really hard time believing the whole "dual plane / individual cylinder starvation under boost" thing. Hey, we all believed that BBs shattered at 600HP once, right?

2 - I drove around for 2 summers with (among other things) a TM6 on a stock cammed 400, in front of a stock converter, 3.23s, and 4200lbs. Perhaps the least exciting car I've ever driven, hahaha! It was a loaner, and I never quite picked up a dual plane for it, but I would like a little more velocity while pulling out of the SuperDawg.

D - Bidding against people on eBay for single plane intakes is kind of like playing "chicken" with the un-dead - you end up paying $15 less than a brand new one, hahaha.

7 - It only has to run like this for a summer (or two).

To agree with you though, the same combo, except with a "healthier" Comp cam and Eddies, pulled like a real bear down low for the 10 minutes it ran, so......

JT - that is a good idea! If push comes to shove I'll give that a shot (can always add it in later), but I have the center of the cable "lobe" offset so much that touching the throttle really won't move it, and I'm feeding 400" right off the bat (I think there are a lot of mustang guys running 90mm blades on 302s and getting away with it right?).

I didn't make the rails from scratch - doable, but a super pain in the ass / waste of time, especially when you can buy 'em at $10/foot. They're available from a few places - these are Ross Machine "-6" rails.

 

Re: Intake / throttle body spy photos

I didn't use any scientific method of determining offset. I've noticed through the years, that all throttle blades are offset like that, even on carbs. It would probably be best to just have a "touch" more surface area on the side that vacuum wants to pull shut. If you offset to far you could run into throttle plate binding. My first attempt at making the TBs didnt have the offset, and used factory style return spring. Maybe my machining was off, or who knows what, but you could feel fluttering on your foot, or at least, a hard to control pedal at cruising speeds.
The throttle screw that fell out on me was not on my car, but on my bike. That was the scariest thing that ever happened to me, and the closest to death that I've ever been. The TB on that is off of a dodge caravan. The thottle body screws are supposed to be smashed on the back side. Well, the smasher dude must have been sleeping the day that this one was built, because the smash marks were next to the screws(as I found out later) instead of on the screws. Now remember, this thing was on a smooth running V6 for years before I got it. Well, I put the thing on a turbo harley, and with about two hours of total run time, the screws loosened up. After a very exciting ride, I found the one screw was loose, and the other must have fallen out in some closed or partially closed throttle situation, because the screw was still in the intercooler, not the cubustion chamber. Anyway, Under a full throttle blast, the blade cocked sideways in the TB bore ond stuck there! By the time I realized what was happening, traffic ahead of me was stopping at a traffic light, and I was in a SEVERE panic. After all the skidding, rev limiter music, and bar/tank slapping stopped, I walked away with the intent of never getting on that thing again(never being about 15 minutes)

 

Re: Intake / throttle body spy photos

Detailed view of TB/ intercooler

 

Re: Intake / throttle body spy photos

That's rad! Do you still have the bike? Neat pics. Also, what computer did you run on the bike? How about turbo / fuel system?

Yeah, nobody likes a stuck throttle - scary stuff. Glad you made it out okay!

 

Re: Intake / throttle body spy photos

Here's an idea I've been kicking around - I've never been thrilled about "goalpost" rail support setups that everyone seems to adopt. Sure, they're easy to tack onto the intake, but they're sorta ugly and often obstruct the path to important features like intake bolts, throttle linkages, and whatnot. Plus, I like to make things extra difficult for myself.

These little guys allow you to set rail height, clamping force (downward) on the fuel side O-rings, keep the rails from flying around, and most importantly, take up only a little extra real estate near the injectors (out of the way). Since you "nut" everything tight, there's nothing to lose in the event you have to pull a rail. Plus, I think they look kind of trick, but that's just me. I made these "prototypes" on a trashed Bridgeport (just to see if I liked the idea), but the real McCoys will be hacked out in a real NC mill. I'm pumped! (I earned bonus points today for using the swivel Kurt vice as a "4th axis" to do the external radius, hahah!)

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Re: Intake / throttle body spy photos

I see somebody's got skills....

 

Re: Intake / throttle body spy photos

Nice work Anthony!
Did you know that eddy has a new EFI Victor intake for the Mopar crowd?
TILT

 

Re: Intake / throttle body spy photos

Thanks Guys!!

Yes, I've heard of / seen multiple EFI intake offerings, but none I was sure I could buy off the shelf - the Edelbrock site still doesn't list anything of that nature - it's the same way it was 2 years ago: RB-only intake, and only as part of the entire system. Plus, imagine the embarassment when you call to ask if an EFI manifold is available for Chryslers, and they laugh because you're doing something technological with a Mopar!

Played around a little today.....not quite an intake / TB pic, but a good conversation starter for sure.

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Re: Intake / throttle body spy photos

Where are these brave little toasters marching? Answer tomorrow! (no cheating looking at the filename!!!)

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Re: Intake / throttle body spy photos

Whoops, got behind a day in manufacturing. Got bogged down with "actual" work, and you know how much trouble that can be. Here's one roughed out (the beauty of CNC is hitting the "go" button again as many times as I need.....and that's not bad!). Still need to chop the pad out (gonna have O-rings in them too - none of this "gasket buying" nonsense!) - and it's hard to see the radii, fillet, hose barb and tapered bore, but you can kind of imagine them.

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Still stumped? This will be its natural habitat:

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Re: Intake / throttle body spy photos

hey.... you gimme those fuel rails oke: