With a good set up, like a trunk mount tank(away from engine heat) and two nozzles set to spray progressivly as boost builds. Would you be able to get the intake charge near 100F. Keep in mind with no intercooler. Water injection alone.

 

Sam, in preliminary testing on friday evening my intake air temps were around 165-170* at 4psi of boost. With the alchy/water spraying and 5psi of boost the air temps were right around 100*, and I think my nozzle is way to small and isn't flowing the volume it really needs. I plan on turning the boost up to around 7psi to see how well it controls temp then i'm most likely going to buy a couple of M15 nozzles... i'll know more this week as I beat on the car, i mean "test".

 

When I ran WI with a m1 and m2 nozzle w/ 15#s boost on a 10:1 4v engine I totally did away with knock retard. Water injection cured what 110 race gas could not cure. The 99 4v knock sensors are overly sensitive, but on race gas I would pull 2* and on water I pulled none. Point is it does not take alot of water to control knock.

Jason

 

wow, you only used an M1 and M2 nozzles? At the same time? I wonder why everybody says to use the M15, maybe when you rely on it for fueling the bigger nozzles are needed. I just want it for cooling as I have no intercooler. And at this time it seems to be working good with the small nozzle i have.

 

I know meth requires more volume to do the same cooling as water. Also, people use meth to help fuel on the top end. In my experience little water is needed to cool the intake charge. I was making 500+rwhp at the time.

A m15 nozzle I think will be way overkill using water.

 

I know Dman uses no intercooler but how bout that 4v, No timing retard?

Ive noticed when I was testing my wastegate (little to no boost) after, the intake pipe was quite warm to the touch.

 

Timing was set at 15* @ WOT. With race gas 110 timing would go to 13*, without WI or race gas timing would go to 11*, the maximum the ecu would pull at the time. With WI 15* through the entire run. On my build I hope to maintian the 10:1 compression, and only run methanol injection. I will use a M15 nozzle with methanol.

 

thanks for the insight. i'm new to this whole process and don't really want to blow a headgasket.... atleast not yet as i approach 450rwhp i'll expect it.

 

Im not going to push past 10# on my street car, Im still worried about running full timing. Also can Shuflo pumps (100psi) work well when using two smaller nozzels instead of on big one? Im going to run one nozzel right after the turbo and one right before the TB.

 

That is how I ran mine on the novi. constant pressure I ran my shurflo continuous with no pressure switch. I know it is not recommmended, but that is the way I did it.

Jason

 

I thought about running my pump all the time but since it's a fuel pump i figured it would die pretty quickly. the alchy is harmful enough on it. But I am considering a "purge" button that i can press to get things ready before a run.

 

Ive seen the shurflo's on ebay for 60$ ???!!!???

 

yeah, they are not expensive. the local irrigation store has them for $79 which by the time you pay for shipping is pretty close. when my fuel pump dies i'm switching to a shurflo

 

thats one thing I was curious about, I was thinking about running boost reference to the water tank to help the pressure differential issue as you build more boost....but I wasn't sure if the pressure switch in shurflo's is referenced from the inlet line or from atmospheric....anyone know?

I'm atually pretty close to running continuous anyway, so either way, I should probably bypass the pressure switch AND boost reference the water tank. Could anyone point to instructions on how to bypass the pressure switch?

I'm really surprised that anyone could get away with just a M1 or M2 on a car....my theory on it was, keep increasing the size until the engine makes it known its too much, then back up a bit. I'm working with a much smaller motor and have settled on a M4, which by my calculations, its around 20% ratio vs fuel, which is up there. What I also discovered is where you mount the water jet makes a huge differences. First place I mounted them was very close to the carbs/intake ports, and the water wasn't atomizing enough and was causing a really big bog....backing it up 8 inches up the intake track completely removed the bogging, so I assume its atomizing much better now.

Not exactly scientific, but trial and error DOES eventually work....I've only cracked 2 pistons with my experiements so far

 

They are not all created equal. Apparently, there are valves available made of Teflon or EPDM or Nitrile. A good upgrade over the ones that come with the pump.

The switch is referenced atmospheric. Mine is left hooked up, cycles on and off quickly but works fine.


If you boost reference the tank, just use a washer fluid pump.

 

I use the Shurflo pressure sensing pump, M15 nozzel and the Delrin soleniod with the single kits.

I mount the pump and tank in the trunk and it works without issue. The line keeps a constant pressure and it gets no unwanted bleed from the nozzel.

I have seen as high as 16 psi on a stock 95 Cobra with a 63-1, and got no knock at all on pump gas with an 80/20 water/alky mix.

 

uncle bob, the nozzle i'm using is so small it doesn't even bog the motor down while it's idling yet in testing today it dropped air temps atleast 80* compared to running without the alchy/water mix... i'm kindof baffled too since all i read before was that i needed a pretty big nozzle.

 

although I've never tested mine off boost, mine goes on at 5 psi, but the pressure switch likes to hang until the engine sees vacuum....so even at partial throttle after I get off boost (assuming I don't shut the throttle) it will stay on. It never bogs.

This is a 1.0L engine, so a M4 is a LOT of water in comparison

I'm using straight water BTW. I have no lean issues on boost, and water is a better heat disapator, so I've never bothered mixing anything with it.

 

copied from another board by Ed Clark

Hey guys, sorry I missed this thread somehow. The busier I am the quicker I look over the theads. I work for the Navy and if you hadn't noticed our country is at war so tuning takes a backseat and I get really busy.

Anyway, here's the deal with the water injection.

The object is for the water to absorb the heat. More heat or more air flow will require more water.

Water doesn't burn. Water does not provide free O2 thus won't lean the mixture. But because water doesn't burn it may slow down the combustion process. So more water without alky may hurt performance unless a very fine balance is found between lowering temps and bogging the engine down. This will be a very small nozzle size.

Alky burns and absorbs heat. But not as well as water. But it does burn and is high octane. So more of it can be added without bogging the engine. This is why I 50/50 mixture is recommended. It's a good balance unless your trying to achive something different.

In a proper setup on a centrifual setup it's best to get the nozzle as close to the heat source as possible. This allows the water more time to absorb the heat. More water and more heat will require more time. The distance between the nozzle and IAT sensor should be as great as possible with the IAT hopefully giving the EEC an accurate indication of the temps entering the combustion chamber.

Then once the car is CORRECTLY tuned WITHOUT the water/alky then turn the water/alky on. There are several reasons for this. It is critical that the load calcuations be correct. Because the computer will be adding and subtracting timing based on the load that the computer calculates. This will not only determine how much power the car makes but how safe and adaptive the tune is. So if the all is done correctly the computer will automatically add the correct amount of timing back into the tune. Now the computer doesn't know that your adding any form of alky into the mix. This is a bonus safety factor. Yes, that means some power is left on the table, but it also means that if the water/alky kit fails for whatever reason the tune automaticlly falls back to the originally safe tune. If your tuner wants to continue tuning timing and fuel with the water on you may want to discuss this with him as there are risks.

With an Autologic tune this will all be much tougher. The autologic vintage software wasn't this capable. In fact I'm pretty sure only the SCT software is.

When I ran the 2002 Mod Shootout didn't have control of the autologic tune the way that I do now. I ran only water (do to class rules) and essentially over tuned the car to take advantage of the lower temps it worked well for me. But tuning took a lot of work with what was available then.

But with the Snow kits I'd recommend the 375 ml nozzle or smaller if you can find one for just water alone. With a 50/50 mix a 625 is pretty good for most cars. The real key is to monitor IAT temps. If they aren't dropping considerably you probably need more pump speed or nozzle if the pump speed is already high. If temps are dropping well but the exhaust mixture is being affected, probably rich you may need to cut back some of the pump speed. A proper setup and mixture will have very little to no effect on mixture and drop temps considerably. I've seen over 130-150 degree drops on some cars in the heat of summer. Less in winter of course. The best hp gains I've seen are about 100 rwhp. In extreme cases this can be around 8 degrees of total timing or more.

That Novi 1000 is a good example. On my car a 97 degree day got me almost 240 degrees IAT before the water at full 12 psi boost. Once I got the water right temps were only 107. Even with no timing changes the car was a totally different car. My stock bottom end, non intercooled Novi 1000 and a 3300 pound car was approaching 120 mph trap speeds.

It's all in the science guys....

Thanks for your time reading this! I rambled so long I may have missed something... did I?

 

absolutly beautiful