Hey guys, got what I feel is a bit of a strange situation. I got my mustang running and I'm working some bugs out on it. Combo consists of the following.

Proform 650 carb

Edelbrock torker intake (original torker)

eBay heads called "new kid on the block" ported slightly... Mostly just casting clean up.

Crower 15322 solid flat tappet camshaft setup dot to dot

factory 302 crank, 289 rods with casting Sean polished and shot peened and bored to accept chevy 350 Pistons floating steel to steel.

pistons are forged probe 350 Chevy pistons .040" over flat tops with 2 reliefs

ignition is msd dist, 6al box for now...

exhaust is 1 5/8" no name shorties, 2.5" crossover

holset based 67mm with .96 a/r hotside

3.5" down pipe to dual 2.5 dumped at the axle.

Ford racing T5z and 3:55 rear gears

Alright, here's how it's gone so far. I got the motor running, broke in and timing set to where I thought it should be. 18 degrees locked for a starting base. Road tests have brought up a real big issue. When leaving the driveway, stop light etc it has a terrible bog and will actually die if you don't rev it way up and slip the clutch hard! I have tried many different accelerator pump cams and pump squirters. All unsuccessfully cured the bog.

I backed the timing down to 10 degrees which exadurated the issue to the point of playing around backing out of the shop and moving around in the driveway was almost impossible.

Now to what's up today... I have verified TDC three times using a piston stop. Tdc is tdc.

The bog has been resolved but raised some serious questions. The fix is 40-50 degrees of initial timing. There is zero starter kick back hot or cold, plugs look better and wideband shows more consistent a/f ratio. What could be the cause of this oddly high timing? I have not boosted it at this level other than 2 lbs or so. Can anyone enlighten me on this weird situation?

 

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Mechanical advance stuck closed perhaps?

 

No mechanical advance. Locked distributor. What base is set at is what it runs all thru the rpm range.

 

Lining up the cam gears dot for dot doesnt mean the cam is installed properly.
You have to verify it with a timing wheel and adjust it if needed to match the manuf. recommend intake centerline I/C
So that is left to question , is it correct. If the cam timing is incorrect it can cause your issue.

 

More to add.
Setting the timing initially at 18 deg. can cause the rotor to be out of phase. Many have had this problem on SBF in the past just locking the timing for boost. That distributor is most likely going to be in phase between 30 and 40 deg.
You might set your base at 35 and pull it down into the 20s when it comes up on boost. If you dont have a way to pull timing, I suggest you do or you will have bullshyt problems with driveability.

The real answer, though its scary, will be if it will only make power with boost and and lots of timing. If that was the case, then I would for sure suspect the cam timing.

 

You need to verify the marks on the balancer before you do anything else. Put in a piston stop and find where TDC really is. Then come back.

 

Sounds like that's been done.

 

That is a lot of cam for a 5.0, and not really a turbo friendly grind especially with your turbo. I can see it wanting plenty of ign lead, and having issues with low speed torque. What does it make for vacuum at idle? What comp ratio? Double checked valve lash? I would try more lash, and see if it makes a change in idle vacuum, or cranking compression. I would also check cam timing as others have said. If nothing else just to rule it out. You should be able to degree it without pulling it all apart being you have a solid lifter cam.

 

And when I pull the thing down to find the cam with 1 degree of correct setup dot to dot then what? I'm not saying I'm not willing to do so, but with cam manufacturers today I'll bet everything is dang close to perfect

 

Plenty of timing sets out there that are not perfect. No need to pull it down to check it. Check the basics before tearing it down. If it were me, and I pulled it down, it would be getting a different cam...lol

 

Alright, I should have given a little background to some of the build. I wanted to build something different, something that didn't include 2k dollar heads, "custom" turbo cam and all that. I wanted to build a motor on the cheap attempting to spin to 8k rpm. The turbo is only on there to assist. I'm not a racer and have zero plans to count tenths or even seconds. Just see what this combo builds. Hell its a 1980's version of a long rod 302. I will verify cam timing this week, talked with a friend who gave some advice on doing so with the motor in the car. Once that is verified I'll go from there.

 

I do not have any plans to change the cam either. I chose every piece and part just for fun. I did put a steel Lakewood bellhousing on tho for some safety.

 

I had an NA 302 combo with a big roller,Windsor Sr heads and domed pistons that ran on 38*

 

What makes this cam a big cam or a lot of cam for a 5.0?

 

And let me answer your questions. Vacuum is 7 inches at idle. Comp ratio is probably 9:1 ish. I didn't spend much time figuring it. Flat to pistons and 60cc chambers. Valve lash is set to crower specs. I could try some more lash after I verify cam timing.

 

Also, phase only matters with a crank pickup or other electronic pickup correct?

 

Shouldn't it be locked around 36-40 and pulling timing out under boost? Running around at 18 is not gonna be fun.

 

With a stock, or mild cam locked at 18 will suck anywhere but in boost, and it'll be worse with more cam.

 

I built an engine very close to your setup for my brother years ago, and here's my take on this. Your cam, and cid gives up a ton of low speed torque, (look at a few dyno graphs, or desktop dyno it, you'll be surprised how much this little motor gives up.) and when going with a manual trans you also lose the torque multiplication of a torque converter, and it feels even worse. An ign system with curve, or boost retard will help make it driveable, but will only semi bandaid the issue. Until you get into boost its going to be a slug, unless you gear it like its n/a.... ie 4.56's.