I'm mocking up the IC location. My basic question is how much of an affect does the IC have when placed in front of the radiator. The first picture shows the front end intact. I plan on adding at least one opening in the nose that will feed air directly to the IC. This will also mix with the air coming from the grill into the airbox. I have twin pusher fans mounted to the radiator that push over 2600cfm. The second picture shows the actual IC location. Ultimately it will be mounted about 2" lower than the picture shows.
Also, I am guessing that it does not matter which end is up, in the picture the discharge is downwards.

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Run the fans as pullers it’s more efficient that way. No it doesn’t matter which way is up. Mount the ic in front of the rad is common practice

 

I try very hard to be open to comments from others about plumbing.
Looking at your inter-cooler I would do this:
1) I would flip the inter-cooler over 180 degrees and have the two pipes in the picture on the bottom.
2) I would space the inter-cooler at least 1" in front of the radiator. This would allow having a bottom feed scoop feed the radiator with some fresh air vs only seeing the hot air from the inter-cooler.

By having the inlets on the bottom it is easy to route the turbo compressor discharge pipes from the turbo compressors to those inlets.

By having the single tank outlet on the top (now) you can feed your Throttle Body/Bonnet with one pipe the same diameter as the throttle blade size.

Depending on the Turbo Size, you can install TWO Compressor By-Pass valves on either side of the feed pipe before the throttle body closer to the radiator where there is typically more clearance.

I agree with making the fans pull hot air from the radiator/inter-cooler vs trying to push the air thru the system.
At speed the front mounted fans tend to block some of the air from the grill area.

Looks like a great project. What size/model are the turbos? Size of the wastegates? Size of the Compressor By-pass valves?
and finally the engine control system you think you will use.

Tom Vaught

 

Thanks for the input, I'll address each issue as you wrote them,;

 

Does the outlet come out in the center or off to one side? I figured off to the side, but your comments are making me rethink that.

 

IC discharge is center of the tank, depending on how the final mounting goes I may have it cut and remounted to the side of the tank.

 

Compressor By-Pass valves do you mean Blow Off Valves? I had planned on only one, what would be the benefit of a second?

A Blow off Valve is different from a compressor By-Pass Valve.
A Blow-off Valve, be it a "Burst Plate" on the intake or a spring loaded valve that is forced open at high boost pressures.
A Compressor By-Pass Valve senses intake manifold Vacuum (like when the Throttle Valve is quickly closed) and protects the Turbo (Compressor Wheel) and the Inter-cooler / Intake Plumbing when the throttle no mlonger is open.
The high pressure air needs to go somewhere quickly vs hurt parts. I have seen intercoolers blow apart from excessively high pressure spikes. I have seen turbo compressor wheels with the valves bent from touching the housing due to the same issue.

Talk to some people, read some books on those components and it will be clear to you.

Just because you have one large By-pass Valve does not mean it will be enought compressed air removed from the induction system QUICKLY ENOUGH. Inter-coolers and Turbos are expensive. Multiple By-pass valves are installed on engines for a reason.

Tom V.

Since you joined the board this year, it might be a good idea to look at how others did things on their turbo systems.

 

Swap it out for this? https://www.treadstoneperformance.com/trtt9-intercooler--twin-turbo-intercooler/p104596

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That would work fine if there was a hood latch clearance issue.
A well designed inter-cooler.

Tom V.

 

Tom V.
Since you joined the board this year, it might be a good idea to look at how others did things on their turbo systems.[/QUOTE]
Tom,
Thanks for the input, since joining thew site I have been reading... A lot. But you are the first to actually mention the "bypass valve" so far in my reading.
With your other admonition in mind I started researching the "bypass valve". What I have learned so far is that both valves do basically the same thing. The only variance is where the excess pressure is vented. With a BOV all pressure is vented to atmosphere, with the BPV, a percentage of air is vented to atmosphere and a portion is vented back into the intake. The main benefit of this being reduced turbo lag, especially in manual transmission cars. Since I have a T56 6spd in my Monte Carlo this may be a real benefit to me. The BOV I have is controlled with manifold vacuum so this may be ok.
Another question raised during my research was valve positioning. I had thought that positioning the BOV in the charge pipe just ahead of the throttle body would be acceptable. But I am seeing where it may be better to install the valves inline closer to the turbo. This makes sense and would dictate the need for a second valve.
Thoughts?

 

For street boost, up to 20 psi for example, a single By-pass valve with a LARGE diameter valve might be ok.
With a twin turbo system and the ability for the twin turbos to make 30-40 psi of boost pressure, when you slam the throttle shut the air has a hard time getting thru that single valve. And typically with a 30-40 psi system you are not by-passing the air but dumping the air, as quickly as possible, as you mentioned with the "Blow-off design" routing.

RARELY DOES ANYONE NOT GET BOOST FEVER AND KEEP CRANKING THE BOOST UP HIGHER AND HIGHER.

Some have patience and do the 5-10 psi the first year and get the low speed calibraition dialed in perfectly.
Second year they do the 10-20 psi calibrating as they also make changes to the car to put the power to the ground.
Third year typically the people are creeping up on that 30 to 40 psi boost pressure as they have the chassis in pretty good shape by then.

Tom V.
I did boosting (as a paid job, for 39 years) and I still learn every day.

 

After reading through everything I think it is going to be best to add a second valve and revise the mount location to close to the compressor discharge as possible instead of the charge pipe.

As far as boost fever, I doubt I will get that. It's been my desire for years to install twins on this car, but the current engine configuration is going to be boost limiting. 15psi should get me to 1000hp, maybe a little more. But more importantly I want for my wife and I to be able to enjoy the car for this summer, I named this car bucket list for a reason and do not expect to be able to drive it next year. That's why it is important that get it right the first time, I may not get a do over.

 

I worked with John Meany for a while at Ford (when he was between companies).
This was prior to John starting the Big Stuff3 company. He was playing around with the idea of a 1000 hp real street car.
This car would be a twin turbo SB Corvette. He built the car and for only 1000 hp it was an
animal on the street (as a true street driven car).

Street cars are different vs drag cars, do not need to tell you that, but be safe when the wife is in the car.

Tom V.

 

Thanks for the sentiments. I can tell you without hesitation that at my age and experience I am not prone to irrational behavior any more. 20 -30 years ago yeah, I did some crazy things... at the drop of a hat . My car is currently over 500Hp, nice thing about it is that once you have it you find that you have nothing to prove to anyone. At least not at my age

 

I have posted many times that "people do stuff for reasons" on other websites.

Copying a turbo package that someone else did saves time IF your goals are similar and the platform is similar.
This car was turbocharged in 1979. 1968 Corvette, 350 engine, cast iron "modded new" exhaust manifolds, Corvette Mechanical Fuel Injection, Rajay 375E70 Turbochargers, Manual Transmission, street rear gears.

Fun car to drive, dependable, good power, decent stopping capability (4 wheel discs).

You could drive this car several hundred miles to a major car show without issues. It was high tech at the time.
The packaging is what I want you to look at. My suggestion would be take your time, get the parts you need to have a successful package and then really go over how the system needs to be plumbed for your needs.

Tom V.

 

man, thats a tight fit. Was that the old mechanical FI setup? Lucky for me I do have a lot more room to work with. You busy this weekend ?? LOL

 

Correct! Last year of the Mechanical FI set-up was used.
Some Mechanical FI tricks were used to get the fuel right for both cruising and for boost.
I did the Turbo Match, ordered the Turbos and helped with the installation.
We put a NEW GM Parts "service frame" under the car BEFORE we beat on it.

I had a lot of fun doing that car with my friend.
He was a Calibration Engineer at Holley Engineering.
I was working for Ford Engineering.

If you lived in Michigan, I might take a trip, LOL!

Tom V.

 

Tennessee is getting nice this time of year... uncovering the pool this weekend

 

Been to Nashville to race. Been to US-43 to race, I know the Butler family and Butler Performance in Leoma Tenn.
The Butlers have been into Boost for a long time. NOS first then for a short period of time, Roots Supercharger stuff, then a couple of Centrifugal Supercharger projects for customers, and for the last 10+ years Twin Turbo Pontiacs (as well as LS based Pontiacs).
Big Chief's Engines come from their shop.

Tom V.