E85, FMU, MS & 48s....help/opinions?

I have 48lb injectors, Megasquirt 1 v2.2. I can't afford bigger injectors and the only effective way I can think of running E85 on my setup is with an FMU. I know everybody hates FMUs for their inability to control AFRs. I only want it to boost my fuel psi so that I can gain the extra flow for the E85. I have MS for tuning. When my funds are better I will get some 160s. I can't afford race gas and pump gas scares the #### out of me...so E85 seems like the hot ticket. Is this plan sound?

Do larger injectors with an FMU take less strain than smaller injectors with an FMU?
Yes, it would take 19lb injectors at 460psi to equal the same flow of 48lb injectors at 72psi.

How much fuel psi can an injector take safely?
Bosch design III and Lucas style injectors can take 140psi easy and GM Multec style injectors start fading out horribly around 60psi and they just stop at 80psi. Here is the FIC video of the test. #[/url]

What is the calculation for an FMU?
Base psi + (fmu ratio x boost psi) = operating fuel psi?

EDIT to answer my own Qs.

 

Re: E85, FMU, MS & 48s....help/opinions?

how much more power are you looking to make?

IMO you'd be better off looking into a water/meth setup. I think it'll be more bang for the buck vs running e85 and safer. There's guys making big power on pump gas and water/meth setups... E85 is good if you have the correct support fuel system, and like you stated you know you dont. Put the $ towards water/meth and then when you get larger injectors run the e85, then you'll have the best of both worlds. Cooling the inlet temps and the knock suppression you'll get with the water/meth is a better bet than chancing it with e85 and an FMU.

 

Re: E85, FMU, MS & 48s....help/opinions?

gotcha. I know I want to run something like 12-15psi so I can hit low 10s. I will either run what I got or add meth.

 

Re: E85, FMU, MS & 48s....help/opinions?

It depends on the injectors; some can work on 70 psi, others won't open reliably above 60. At 60 psi, they'll be like 56 lb/hr injectors, at 70 psi, like 61 lb/hr injectors. You could just use an adjustable FPR if the FMU math is tricky. But it still doesn't quite make up for the increased flow demands.

 

Re: E85, FMU, MS & 48s....help/opinions?

I have decided to run an FMU with a 3.1 disc. Which should bring me up to 70ish PSI. My Bosch design IIIs are good for atleast 140psi. E85 with an FMU it is. The water/meth seems like more of a liability than E85 and an FMU.

 

Re: E85, FMU, MS & 48s....help/opinions?

Are you sure you have enough fuel pump? A walbro 255 isn't (for example) will not get the job done at those pressure ratios.

 

Re: E85, FMU, MS & 48s....help/opinions?

I have two bosch 909s in parallel being feed by a 04 Focus svt intank pump.

 

Re: E85, FMU, MS & 48s....help/opinions?

as pressure goes up - volume goes down. What is your pump rating at 45psi vs. 100psi

I would go meth injection long before the FMU.

 

Re: E85, FMU, MS & 48s....help/opinions?

Your probably better running as is for now and just saving for the injectors. I know money doesn't grow on trees but by the time you spend all the money and time trying to get those little injectors to work it doesn't sound like it would be worth it...

 

Re: E85, FMU, MS & 48s....help/opinions?

All I would be doing is running more fuel psi. When you run pumps (series) they share the load. So in my case I would have 3 pumps sharing the fuel psi load of lets say 70-80 psi. That is roughly 25 psi per pump. The 2 inline pumps probably bear more of the work so lets say the intank is at 0 psi since it has 2 pumps relieving it of any work then that leaves the other two pumps at about 40 psi.

The 909 flows 25% less than the Bosch 044 and with the Bosch 044's 30lph heat loss the 909 flows about 12% less than the 044. I don't have exact flow numbers because Bosch doesn't flow their pumps with gas. They use N-heptane which flows way less than gas. By the literature the 044 flows 200lph @ 5bar (73.5 psi), with gas they have been flow tested at 300lph. So by my calculations the 909 should flow about 225lph @ 5bar or 450lph @ 5bar for dual pump setup not to mention running fuel pumps inline increases the flow by 15%. So 450lph + 15% = 517.5lph or 140gph. Using the fuel pump calculator provided my setup is good for about 1450FWhp. So you say head room?LOL

Bosch pumps are some of the best........durable, reliable and cheap. If I did my math right the setup I have is good for more than 1,000hp on gas.



My 48s at 70 psi would flow like 62s. People run that for static fuel psi all the time which is more stressful on your fuel system than running the higher psi only when you need it.

The 1st document is Bosch's flow specs for some of there more popular pumps.

The 2nd document is AMS's flow specs when they tested the 044 single vs parellel.

Fuel pump calculator http://2.3liter.com/Calc1.htm#FPHP

#ad

 

Re: E85, FMU, MS & 48s....help/opinions?

So you already have the FMU? I was assuming you were going to buy it....

 

Re: E85, FMU, MS & 48s....help/opinions?

sell your 48s and spend an extra $100 to buy some used(or new) 120s. problem solved.

that way, you can run at 43.5base psi and have pump head room

 

Re: E85, FMU, MS & 48s....help/opinions?

Thanks for your opinions I don't need them anymore. I solved the problem. No need for bigger injectors I have 3 pumps and an FMU. I will make my injectors flow the amount I need.

Hell vortech guys run 12:1 FMUs with 19s and 6-8 psi boost all the time.

 

Re: E85, FMU, MS & 48s....help/opinions?

Did you check the math?

 

Re: E85, FMU, MS & 48s....help/opinions?

Scratched for now ONLY because I don't have room for an FMU and I don't want to replace the lines just yet.

 

Re: E85, FMU, MS & 48s....help/opinions?

Pardon the hijack, but how's that TP38 doing for you? Can't find a build thread for your setup, probably being search-retarded. I would bump base FP before I bumped the FP with an FMU, it would likely be easier to tune even though idle may prove to be a bit of an issue. Besides that meth injection works, I know people who run it consistently on the street with over 20 PSI and no major problems. That being said of course a good meth kit is not cheap, injectors would be a better choice in the long run. Provided the Focus pump doesn't become a restriction you should be able to in theory have some pretty signifianct pressures.

 

Re: E85, FMU, MS & 48s....help/opinions?

Bumping base psi is worse than running an FMU. Meth injection is cool until the pump gives out. Focus pump won't be a restriction cause the pumps can pull gas through it. Tp38 is great. I am getting it retuned next week.

 

Re: E85, FMU, MS & 48s....help/opinions?

The same thing can be said about an FMU. I would rather rely on a high quality pump than an FMU that spikes fuel pressures to astronomical levels.

 

Re: E85, FMU, MS & 48s....help/opinions?

As a little update. Goin for more power now I run Bosch white top 160s, Magnafuel pump and a 351w.