I figure most "race" cars already have CO2 on board for air shifters etc. If one were to plumb a air fitting in at a optimum angle and use 2000+ psi of pressure blasting into the hot side of the turbo wouldn't this aid massively in the spool time of large units?

Only problem I see is the low tempratures of the co2 being jammed into the hot turbine wheel/housing? Are these temps even elevated much at idle/staging?

 

I'm pretty sure the flow available from a CO2 bottle is insignificant compared with the flow required to spool a turbo.

 

I disagree... Have you ever used compressed shop air and "spool up" a turbo? I believe we had out shop air regulated to 90 psi. And within 4-5 seconds I had the blades going at insane amounts of RPM. (yes I know this is stupid and dangerous. Don't try it) It started as a low howling which moved on to a siren like pitch and things really started getting scary once it went almost silent....

I realize there was no back pressure on this unit but with 2000psi I'm pretty sure it would get things moving.

My main fear is as stated... I'm not a wealthy man and the thought of freezing cold c02 cracking my housings is enough to stop me from doing it.

 

Not enough volume

 

Then I guess my question would be how much volume is needed? Then I could calculate if there was enough pressure to make up for the loss in volume?

 

you are not just talking about spooling of a free reving turbo in your shop. You are also building pressure on the compressor side as the boost would build.

 

Correct, but we're also talking over 20x the pressure. I believe that would fill up the space rather quickly.

Was looking at the halfbakery sight... This guy claims it works quite well....

http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Steam_20Anti_20Turbo-Lag_20System

 

Just use nitrous and be done with it.

 

I'm trying to reduce cyl pressures/temps not compound them! :lol: But yea I spose your right....

 

You are only increasing cylinder pressures with the nitrous until the turbo is flowing enough air to continue on its own, once its making decent boost shut of the NOS.

 

use an rpm switch to turn it off when you have boost building. I'd go nitrous too. or get a smaller turbo/ or smaller a/r turbine housing

 

Some European race cars (not mentioned) used to have the fuel system strategy calibrated for excess fuel in the corners and then they would use a AIR Pump (air injection pump) to add air to the excess fuel in the turbo manifold to keep the turbo spooled up. Lots of flames out of the turbo discharge pipe(s) on the corners.

Tom Vaught

 

Did you Blue Oval guys start that with your RS 200? I know a guy who owns two of the things. One a 'street' version that only has about a million HP, I think it will break mach 1 in less than a mile straight up, and the other is the full-on 800+ HP 2 liter with what looks like a YAK head. I know if you get sporty with either one of them there's a lot of fire and banging going on. 0 to 60 in two seconds. Crazy Fergusson (?) gearbox/transfer-case/dual-driveshaft/multi-differential arrangement with selective torque split, front and rear. When Henry tells you guys to go win, you take him serious.

 

Tuner, I was doing boosting in 1987 on the "Evolution" vehicle with an interesting drivetrain lay-out. Vehicle was stink fast for it's displacement but it was later killed.
Your high HP number was pretty close.

I also had one of the first two Ford Scorpio vehicles in the USA. A high level "Shooter" had the other one. I messed around with some boost on that one too.

Yep, the Ford guys have always tried to win, (when they were allowed to by management).

Tom Vaught

 

I used to own one of Fords Sierra Cosworth saloons,last year of the 2 wd version. Powered by basically a 2 litre pinto, with a forged steel rotating assembly and a 16 valve double ohc Cosworth designed head. Oh,and a little T3 Garret turbo. In stock form they would run 0-60 in 6 seconds and top out at 150mph, while still being able to carry 5 people and get 30mpg. I bought a reprogrammed ecu chip for it to remove the 12psi boost limit, then turned the boost up to 20psi and fitted a home made water injection kit. It was pretty rapid on the street ,I tell you. I only sold it because the joyriders over here used to target them, I couldn't leave it parked anywhere for fear of it getting nicked. B*stard scum.
The RS500 competition version used a bigger T4 turbo and 8 fuel injectors and made an easy 500hp,from still just 2 litres.
Did you have anything to do with these Tom?

 

Yes, I did work on the "Mules" and yes we tried several turbos that were in the T-04 frame size (some equivalent to a "T-61 Plus" Turbonetics Turbo). Hank Dertian, a buddy of mine, was a hard core 4 cylinder turbo guy who worked for SVO in the later years. We did a 4 cylinder turbo deal that kicked the 5.0 Mustang crowd's butt on the Dearborn Proving Ground but they had the "management hp" that we did not have. We also did a very high HP Focus Turbo road race deal some years later based on the Zetec engine.



Tom Vaught

 

I believe CO2 is stored liquified. That's why the off road guys carry CO2 to run air tools and reinflate tires after airing down on the trail: a lot of volume in a small tank. I would think that it would be pretty easy to create adequate volume to spool a turbo with CO2, especially inside a heated exhaust manifold, even with a compressor starting to produce boost. I have heard of guys successfully doing what you're contemplating with CO2.

I share your concern about spraying turbine blades with low temperature CO2. I would inject it further up the exhaust manifold. This would allow the CO2 to absorb more heat, which would create more volume, while reducing the temperature shock on the turbine blades.

 

you can get co2 as gas, it usually is.

Typically you need a dewar to store it in it's -300f liquid state.


If you are really serious about spooling why not throw a injector and spark plug in the exhaust and be done with it? Works for the tractor pull guys.

 

My reasoning was for simplicity and cost.

I could also rig up an RC turbine engine to power the turbo and have instant boost on tap at all times.

Most serious boosted 'race' cars all have CO2 on board anyway. So overhead cost would be very low to add this system. Not to mention simple to plumb and minimal weight gains.