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Fuel cell questions

Discussion in 'Non-Turbo Tech questions' started by Drac0nic, Aug 9, 2022.

  1. Drac0nic

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2005
    So I am working on a car that doesn't have a readily available replacement gas tank for it and I think a fuel cell will actually fit pretty nicely.

    I'm going to drop the tank but from what I can tell just messing around with it internally it's a rust heap. It's rear fill so I was wondering if a filler neck could be installed in the side without an issue. I'd really like to do something where it tied into the stock system.

    I'm sure I'll have others on this matter, but just want to start here.
     
  2. B E N

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2016
    Could you use something like this in the cell hat location? [​IMG]#ad
     
    tbird likes this.
  3. Drac0nic

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2005
    Dunno, probably not without modifying the car. I'm also thinking that talking with some people about this it's probably for the best just to try and get the stock tank cleaned and/or lined at the moment. They seemed to think it was going to be a headache and a money pit to do this.
     
  4. Drac0nic

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2005
    First rad shop was a bust. They said that it wasn't worth dealing with overall. Here's some pics. Debating trying electrolysis on this then doing a coating inside. I have a few nice chunks of lead I could always find a chunk of lead sheet in my stash to be a + electrode.


    087_gas.jpg #ad
    088_sender.jpg #ad
    089_tak1.jpg #ad
    090_tank2.jpg #ad
    091_tank3.jpg #ad
    092_tank4.jpg #ad
    093_tank5.jpg #ad
    094_tank_6.jpg #ad
     
  5. Mnlx

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2009
    Man, i'd ditch that thing for sure... Can you source an aluminum cell, and weld a fill tube to it in the proper location?
     
    tbird and B E N like this.
  6. Drac0nic

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2005
    Got a measurement from Rhodes for the cell above. Front to back the tank is 17" overall but the filler center is 11-3/4 from the side opposite the sump.

    Wonder if they'd do a custom filler neck location for me or if that's the only way they come. Hell I'd take one I had to punch my own hole in if it came to that and DIY it.
     
  7. Drac0nic

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2005
    Asked about the custom filler hole location. They said it'd be a few months at least because they're behind and they're not taking custom work at this time. I decided I'd get the cell and take my chances. I think I can make it work without too much drama, maybe a bit of the ball peen on the floor pan. Hopefully nothing in the way of cut/weld. We'll see how it works out.

    First iteration will be just a basic replace the gas tank setup, absolutely zero special save it has a vent line and a 1/4 inch return line for an anti-vapor lock fuel system.

    Second iteration will be making the "real" fuel system. Plan would be 6 or 8AN all around with an 044 fuel pump. I've got a nice Aeromotive carb reg if I start that route, otherwise I'll plumb in the stock EFI system and adapt to that. At that point I could do the mechanical fuel pump delete and get my oil drain hole. That one's quite a ways off admittedly.

    I may fudge the spacer length after I get it all together and see if I can get closer to the body or not. I'd much rather do such if plausible, but will accommodate if not. It won't be down any further than the stock tank regardless. I will also say it will be nice to have the lower rear sump, it will make draining the tank to moth ball the car in the winter much much easier.
     
    Disney Lincoln and Mnlx like this.
  8. Drac0nic

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2005
    more stuff ordered, I've had the cell in and out about a thousand times at this point. I did the initial fitment using a box of all things to see how plausible things were.

    fuel_cell_fitment.jpeg #ad

    My "try before you buy" fuel cell. Decided I wanted to make minimum investment before the big committment.
    fuel_cell_fitment2.jpeg #ad
    The straps will work with minimal to no modification.
    fuel_cell_fitment_3.jpeg #ad

    The sawzall blade is where I measured for the center of the fill to be at. It was pretty close. fuel_cell_fitment3.jpeg #ad
    I built a frame, this will go between the floor and the cell so that it has a level surface to be up against and space it out to fit correctly.
     
  9. Drac0nic

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2005
    fuel_cell_fill_1.jpeg #ad

    I bought a centered fill and quite honestly the fitment sucked. Not their fault, just didn't fit with my situation. I bought a 7" round plate off Ebay, threw a few sharpie marks on it and used the center fill as a drill guide.
    fuel_cell_fill_2.jpeg #ad

    It fit well as you can see.
    fuel_cell_fill_4.jpeg #ad

    This was the layout I needed to get everything to work. Thankfully the nuts seem to fit well despite being close.
    fuel_cell_fill_5.jpeg #ad

    The offset definitely did what I need it to do. I'm going to use a marine boat fill and try to adapt the OE license plate mount a bit to make it work.

    Fittings are on the way for the first phase of this. I'd like to get it out and around the block once this year, at least to determine if the trans in this thing needs to be rebuilt.
     
    Disney Lincoln, B E N and Mnlx like this.
  10. Drac0nic

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2005
    Cell install is done! In the end it was a headache and I dropped/reinstalled this about 40 times probably but I think the end result is something that gives me a system I can modify and grow with a lot easier than the gas tank would have, and contains 5 lbs less rust than the gas tank did. I have a sump if I want to go big external and a large opening that I can easily use to install an in tank EFI pump (or two) and use the sump with it even. I also gained an easy way to drain the fuel out in the winter, which I like if I were to say use E85 in this.

    109_frame_installed.jpg #ad


    I installed the frame after clearancing around the fuel neck area. You can see the marks where I clearanced. I covered where the steel contacted the cell with rubber heater hose (not pictured.)

    115_fill_holder_mod.jpg #ad

    I modified the license plate fuel neck holder so that I can slide the fill out with the cell if needed. I'd pull the plate holder, then slide it all out as a unit. The stock tank had a fill that stayed in the car and the tank had a grommet that would slide in. If I were some super fancy sort with a TIG I probably would have made something that would have let me use that filler neck. I'm not however, so this is what happens.

    115_fill_neck.jpg #ad

    This was a 45 degree line from Rock Auto. If they had a 55 degree line I probably would have bought it. I marked this then trimmed it up.
    116_fill_installed.jpg #ad

    Boat fill installed. Follow up for this is to shorten the hose a hair more and mount the fill to the plate holder.

    117_finished.jpg #ad


    I'm not thrilled with the line arrangements but they are functional and it's not just a bunch of rubber fuel line. The filter is just a sintered bronze unit to keep any sort of garbage out that may appear. Plans are to get some AN line and run the Aeromotive 340 I have from the Astro left over.

    Overall I rate this project a moderate pain in the ass and expense (estimated below) but worth it. (inc shipping, rough costs)

    steel plate for sender-~$10
    Rhodes Cell-~$270
    Fittings-~$50
    level sender-~$40
    1.5" weld el-$10
    frame steel-~$45
    material to prevent metal to metal contact w/cell-$15
    Fuel neck hose-$20
    fuel filler (boat)-$20
    total-$480

    I would have loved to have gotten a $175 fuel tank/sender but hey some times you don't get a choice in things.

    One more thing I forgot to add. The information Summit, Rhodes etc. had for the 18-0117 cell was INCORRECT. They say it's all 8AN but I had an 8AN vent, a 10AN vent, a 10AN and a 12AN bung in the sump. I am glad I bought fittings after, it would have required returning them otherwise. I'm not sure if this was an isolated thing e.g. I got a one off tank or if the specs are wrong.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2022
    Disney Lincoln likes this.
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