Nothing really avail for the 6.2 or new billets avail so its going to be old school style regrid stock cams and get the best out of them you can. I have found a great cam grinder Daniel Crower DCR for my cams as he speciailizes in motorcycle and there valve train is close to this designe. Daniel fells he can decrease the base circle to go from stock .515esh lift av to .610 lift av mybee a little more. Wish i could get closer to .650 lift as my intake & ex post keep flowing up to .650 lift. Anyway looking for intake & exhaust duration & lac advice as a street turbo engine are new to me. This is what Daniel thinks would work best working with these cams intake dur 214 @.050 lift .610 av exhaust dur 226 @.050 lift .585 av with a 115 lsa ? The 115 lsa is stock and he told me he can only slightly change it so i was thinking 113 or 114 would be better. I had planned to limit this engine to 6.3k for normal driving with a max of 7k. These cam specs seam small to me and i know they are maxed out for what we have to work with but Daniel fells they are good numbers for the rpm range.

 

I think that LSA will be pretty good, those .050 duration numbers are huge, the question is whether its due to ramp rate or advertised duration. Did the grinder mention anything about the advertised duration? As far as I can tell the Livernois cams measure 200/212 duration @.050" with .600/.577 lift on a 116 Lsa. That was a set of measurements done by a member on frf, but since Livernois doesn't publish their "magical" numbers its hard to be 100%. If you can keep the valvetrain in check those should be quite aggressive compared to the stock cam.

I would love to see how this works out, I want to do cams in my raptor but I am not paying Livernois $2600 for their kit. What are you planning on doing with the valvetrain?

 

Thanks alot Ben as i could not find any numbers on livernois cams plus they where on the snobby side when a call to talk about them. The valvetraine looks fairly easy to correct for the smaller base circle. DCS said i could shim the valve adj in the rocker like they do on motorcycles and that looks fairly easy to do. I am still looking at it and i am thinking of lowering the rocker stafts to get more equal / better geometry for the added lift. I heard the factory valve to piston clearnce is close so in any performance cam you will probally have to cut valve pockets in the pistons. Oh do you know wat the factory duration is @ .050 ? I know i should of check that myself but got in a hurry.

 

I looked a little for the factory specs but didn't find them. I am not sure about shimming the factory springs, you will need to pull a spring and see how much compression you can get out of them. From what I have gathered you need to cut reliefs in the pistons, but the builds I have seen are stroker motors that aren't using factory pistons so that's something else you would have to verify. There is a performance build on one of these engines documented here: https://www.fordraptorforum.com/threads/performance-build-in-process.71748/ If you have any questions about what he has done message the author of that thread, he seems to have a really good idea of what is going on in these engines and has spec'd out some valvetrain components.

Depending on your power goals messing with the cams may not be necessary, these engines have some massive valves and breathe well under boost, peak torque of 434 doesn't hit until 4500rpm but it is very flat, making 380 ft lbs by 2250 rpm and staying above that clear 'til redline. That said I think there are gains to be made with a cam, HP falls off at 5500rpm, and if you could push that out even 1krpm the engine would behave a lot more like a performance car motor than a lumpy truck motor.

 

I agree with Ben, the cams may not be worth the hassle. The geometry will be all out of whack. A larger roller, or a lowered rocker shaft, and possibly some hyd lash adjuster work would be needed to maintain the geometry.

 

Ok last week did a quicky stock cam spec check myself and got these # Int dur 200 @ .050 / Lift at cam .308 Ex dur 204 @ .050 / Lift at cam .304 These are not exact # but close. Took 1 set of loaded heads & another set of cam to my grinder yesterday. He will plot the stock cam specs this week and i will post the # when i get them. Now that my cam grinder has looked at the loaded heads and extra set of cams he fells we should decrease the lift at valve to about .550 as he thinks the valve train will not need any mods at that lift with the dur around 225 @ .050 and a 115 lsa. Daniel / camgrinder liked the port & valve designe on the 6.2 heads and he said they should flow good number and there should not be a big need for alot of lift. I had planned to lock the cam phasers but Daniel fells I should use them but limit them to around 7 degrees for a wider power band. I have never used cam phasers but the idea sounds good but what about in the real world more trouble than there worth ?

As for pricing he is doing this set very reasonable for me

 

You will need a mechanism to control the phasers. I think I remember your using a carb on this build, you'll have to lock them out if that is the case.

 

Thanks Ben. Planned on only 1 engine with carbs but that might change. I took the phasers apart today to see how they fuction and they are faily straight forward how they work and can be controled & limited or locked with a custom made alum mounting plate. I know that you can change the rpm range of a cam by advancing or retarding the cam timing. If i used the phasers limited to 7 degress retard it should increase max tork rpm by about 600 rpm and that would be very nice if it works like that in the real world. These phasers in stock form have a ton of movement just guessing around 25 degress most likely for epa stand. In stock form do they start off at full advance and then switch to full retard at a higher rpm or is there movement progressive

 

Hemis are the same, something like 25 degrees, but the factory tune only uses 9. I wanted to do the same, make a limiter spacer, and try just activating it at a certain rpm.

 

Mnlx, I am trying to understand how a tune could control the simple spool valve in the phasers to do more than max in each direction. I could mybee see movment centered by equal oil pressure to both chambers. So if they have 25 degress total movment i can see only 3 options avail for the tune to control zero degress 12.5 degress centered and 25 degress max. For my builds with phasers limted to 7 degress the 3 setting option would be nice but probably not worth the extra tunning issues i fell it might cause

 

The stock ECM can move the cams to whatever angle it wants in the range. But a lot of what it's doing is for drivability, economy and emissions, its only opening wide when your asking for max power at high RPM. It probably won't effect you that much. From the stock tune off my truck it looks like they are only moving 14° total, but they can go up to 45°. I wonder if this is a clearance issue. Makes me wonder how much more could be gained by cutting valve reliefs in the pistons and moving the cam around more.

 

I know on the hemis the timing defaults to full advance, and is retarded by the ecm. Stock is 9 degrees on a 5.7, and with an aggressive cam they use limiters to limit it to 14 I believe.... just as a fail safe. The real advantage is when you have control of intake and exhaust cams independently.

 

Raptor is positive change rather than negative, and independent intake/exhaust and bank to bank. Coyote is negative and goes all the way to 40° intake and 14° exhaust. Essentially you can control all four cams individually on the copperhead fords. Beside the clearance issue their may be valvetrain control issues on the stock engines, I don't know much about that except the gen 1 coyotes and raptors both have barely adequate springs for stock duty.

 

Ben not sure what you mean by positive or negative change ? Guessing phaser at fualt, positive = full advanced and negavive = full retard. It would be very cool to be able to control the intake and exhaust cam timing independent on a 6.2 sohc like the Coyote dohc. I have been looking at the 6.2 cam and its an hollow tube with the lobes pressed on and with that design you could made the intake & exhaust lobes move independent but would it be worth all the work and then theres how to control that movment

 

Got my first set of turbo cams today. After looking at the heads Daniel Crower decide a single patter cam would be best for the turbo. He took the base circle down to 1.200 netting an vale lift int & exh of .545 and a duration of 220 @ .05 on a 114 lsa. Installed one cam into a head to get an eye on the valve train and it looks like they will need zero to very little mods. The stock rocker adjusters have about .100 more movment at zero lash and should work fine but i plan to increase stem height about .050 when doing the valve job. Really have fun with this engin as it designe resembles an sohc V6 engin i ran some 25 years ago in an blowen alco sand dragster, see pic of old V6 Je piston & La sleeve. Next set of cams will be for an N/A and Daniel fells its safe to take the base circle down more and net the lift close to .600 and up the dur 10 degrees with a tighter 112 lsa without any major valve traine mods

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Did you, or do you plan to check the scrub pattern on the valve tip? If your geometry gets too far out of whack it'll show there.

 

Mnlx, Not yet but on these cam i donot think there will be and issue but i will be installing a set of light test springs to check that and cam timing at the valves. When you change the cam base circle on this twin rocker shaft designe i belive it will change the valve to cam timing / geometry from factory.

 

XKfab that kind of looks like a sleeve. Are you sleeving this motor? If so, your thoughts about it? THANKS.

 

Yes that is an old sleeve you see but since i am not going .060 + over bore there is no need for thick ductile iron sleeves. With the stock bore & stroke plus turbo and some other hp stuff it should make more that enought power for the street

 

Any further updates? This thread has had great info. Thanks.