I tend to build motors that use a main girdle for all the mains. Whats the best way to make sure this aligns properly?

Thanks.

 

Not sure what you mean. I had a 410w i built with a probe main girdle and studs, when i torqued down the nuts my crank would bite Discovered my main caps all measured diff heights. Some as much as .045 than the rest. so when it was torqued it would bend the girdle and was rocking the cap in the register,which effectively shortened the bearing clearence! With bolts in with no girdle crank spun perfect. Anyway had all the caps cut to same dim. fixed problem IMO i dont mess with them anymore. But if you like em use them Trust bearing i use a pc of wood and whack it with a hammer on both ends of crank with bolts lightly snugged up.John

 

Alot of people think a girdle isn't worth a damn and they may be right for a 302 but I think it may be worth while on a 351w.
As stated above you can't just bolt a girdle on and go. The proper way is to bring the block, girdle, main fasteners and main caps to the machine shop(and your crank for them to measure the mains).
They will torque the caps and girdle to the block and align hone the mains. This will give you proper oil clearance and keep all the mains true.

 

I am talking about motors with a girdle on the mains from the factory. I am not familiar with ford motors.

Are you saying you should always align hone your motor during a rebuild?

 

No I'm talking about adding a girdle to an engine that didn't come with one.
Typically around here when girdles come up its usually an about aftermarket girdles for 351w or 302's, sorry about the confusion.
Of course always check bearing clearances.

 

Are you talking Toyota , Mazda engines ?

 

Mitsubishi to be specific. There isnt alot of documentation on how to do it and the FSM completely ignores it. Alot of people have issues with crankwalk and I believe its because of lack of proper directions to install the girdle. I wanted to see how it was done on other motors.

I just rebuilt a 4g63 this week with a girdle, I wedged a flat head screw driver between one of the crank weights and the block to thrust it towards the front of the block. Then I tapped the girdle towards the back. After that, I finished torquing the main bolts down. Thrust play came to .003" just at factory minimum.

Just wondering if any of you other guys have to go such an elaborate procedure?

 

You should get this moved to the sport compact section where more people will read it . Because most reading this here think you are talking about a 302 and just about everybody knows it's waste of money on them because it will only keep the pile a little neater.

 

I should have known you were talking about dsm engines if I read your name.
That sounds like a cool setup in a fiero.
I would try asking this question or searching for the answer on various boards such as dsmtalk.com or even on an evo forum as a lot of those guys played with dsm's before the evo's came to the states.
Evolutionm.net

Did the 2.4's have issues with crank walk? I know the 2g's with the 7 bolt cranks had the issues.
I would thing by having this on the tighter side of the tolerance would help prevent crankwalk issues.

 

I am on all of those boards(same user name). Crankwalk is treated like a mystery in the dsm community but I have noticed the domestic community seems to have answers for their thrust bearing failures and such. Alot of popular import shops only speculate without really relating any evidence to their customers.

I want to see how these girdles are properly aligned on other motors that come with them from the factory so I can see if there is something more to the thrust bearing failures like a slightly warped girdle or block from the factory or oil galleys in the crank that are slightly blocked from casting marks or some other crazy stuff.

 

Dont take this the wrong way but I have seen ALOT of people ride the clutch, no problems there?

 

I have only had one motor walk on me and it was one I had rebuilt 1500 miles before.

I was using act2600 PP with an unsprung 6 puck and brand new OEM TOB. The clutch was adjusted properly and I have the car still set up to not need the clutch depressed to start it. I know a heavy PP is an obvious culprit but not after 1500 miles. There has to be some other reason....

I got another motor together in my garage right now. I plan on using the stock PP for now because its a DD anyways.

 

What is the factory thrust max dim? maybe open it closer to the high end, If you turn out to have a problem.

 

.oo15 is getting tight for oil clearence iv seen engines run a long time with .005 to .008 now im talking fords when i put mine together they never had less than .004 if they did i sanded them down on a pc of glass and sandpaper and i never had any problems you have to remember whatever clearence you have is divided in two and .003 could be choking it some These are just some things to think about John

 

The high side from the FSM is .007" of play. Thats with the crank pushed all the way to one side.

 

.005 is what i would shoot for it seems to be the sweet spot for all crank thrust play dim

 

JMO on this if you do a girdle chances are you should get at least a line hone if not a line bore, with the girdle on the engine. At the very least you should be checking the bores for out of round after you put the girdle on. Usually the Grand National guys will machine the tops of the caps as well I believe. I would be tempted to check out one of their boards and get some technical information from there. The consensus is they don't work for something like a 5.0 Ford, however in my opinion and based on results that I have seen they work quite well depending on the weakness of the block/caps/etc in question. They have definitely allowed the 3.8L production blocks to be pushed much farther than would be possible otherwise. If you are feathering bearings because of the caps moving around then something like this could be a great asset. Besides that also be sure you get your crank machined by someone with a good reputation as things like that "can" be temperamental.

 

The motor came with this girdle from the factory and all the bores were round when it was bolted down. I have had issues with using arp main studs and need an align hone but never with the stock girdle with stock main bolts.

What do you mean by "feathering" bearings? I havent seen that term before...


I only use virgin cranks, these cranks arent serviceable.

 

You should align hone the mains even if you are just switching to ARP studs, I use a Kiggly girdle on mine and couldn't be happier.