I'm slowly trying to get my project on the road, and I'm in need of some expertise. I'm working through the MSPNP instructions for just getting the car running. I'm using the base map, with required fuel at 9.4 for the Bosch 42's. It starts nicely but needs throttle blipping for twenty seconds or so to get it to idle. Several issues are present:

Wideband shows motor going full lean several seconds after last throttle blip. Does the same thing if I set the required fuel at 10.4 but it runs worse.

I'm pretty confused about what's happening when I try to set the timing according to the MSPNP instructions. I set it to "fixed" and put a timing light on it, observed timing of 7-8 BTDC. So I changed the trigger angle from 14 to 8 to get the timing to show 10 BTDC. I would've thought the trigger angle change would correlate on a one-for-one basis. Bad assumption or could I have a problem? If I set a trigger angle much lower than 8, the engine revs up to around 3500.

Here's where I really hope someone can steer me down the right road: When I change from "fixed" to "use table", the engine revs to 3500 rpm and holds. Anyone had anything similar happen?

I have not wired the wideband to the MS. What exactly will the MS use the wideband reading for?

Did anyone ever put together an archive of msq tunes? I would like to see what other folks are running.

The car was running great and sorted out on a stock Ford ECU before I started the turbo project.

 

I'm not sure off the top of my head, but I think trigger angle is set for tfi isn't it?
Set the timing to fixxed 10* then move the dist to get the commanded 10*.
Then assuming this thing will make best power around 20*, find a junk dist cap, drill a hole between the #1 tower and the coil tower and set fixxed timing to 20* or about the timing this thing will make peak cyl pressure/power. Then useing the timing light on #1 wire, look at where the rotor is pointing. this will tell you rotor phaseing. as long as your getting your commanded timing and the rotor phaseing is good, your fine.

Don't worry about cold start, idle or anything else until you get commanded timing, then get the car warmed up however you got too, then sort out your VE table. all the cold start, accell, hot start, warm up enrichment, ASE fuel and all the other transient stuff is all based on an accurate ve table, its all a modifier for the what the VE table says to do. Don't get hung up on the idle or cold starting yet.

 

As Fastspec2 noted, getting the timing you see with a timing light to match the commanded timing is critical. Once you have that set, you can ge the rest fixed. If you're having trouble at that point, I can have a look at your settings if you post a copy of your MSQ and a data log of the troubles you're having, or email them with a link to this thread to us at

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That's where I'm at. On the "ignition options" menu, I've got 10 degrees of fixed timing with 10 degrees showing on the timing light, and it idles around 1000 rpm. When I change from "fixed" to "use table" it revs to 3500 and holds there.

These are the only changes (aside from required fuel to 9.4) that I've made to the base tune that came on the PNP when I bought it from you last fall. I changed the trigger angle from 14 to 8 to get to this point. Should I have twisted the distributor instead or do they accomplish the exact same thing? The instructions don't mention turning the dizzy. In fact, they say "Forget everything you know about setting timing" and then go on to tell me to change the trigger angle.

 

Is the point of the hole in the old dizzy cap to try to verify that the timing has moved from 10 to 20? My (new) balancer has a 20 degree mark...can't I just verify it there as well?

 

a hole in the cap is not really nessary. take a marker and make a mark where your #1 wire post is at on the dizzy. take off cap put engine at 20* btdc and line it up.

another way is if you still have the tfi module is to pull your spout adjust timing to 10(turning dizzy) then reinstall and change trigger angle till it agrees with commanded.

the very best way to do things is to put a 36-1 trigger wheel on the crank and ls coils but that seems a bit ahead of what you need now

 

As long as the trigger angle is 15 or less and the timing lines up, that step is accomplished. I'd like to examine a data log of the revving problem at this point and a copy of your tune.

 

I'm brand new to MS and msq's, and I've yet to datalog. Is there a resource or tutorial that will give me the quick and dirty of how to do this?

 

You'll want to use these references:

1. The general MSPNP manual.

http://www.megasquirtpnp.com/docs/mspnp_g2_genInstall.php?boardVer=13&isModel=2

2. The 5.0 MSPNP specific notes.

http://www.megasquirtpnp.com/docs/mspnp_g2_eec4a8.php?isModel=1

3. The TunerStudio reference guide.

http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/Megasquirt2_TunerStudio_MS_Lite_Reference-3.3.pdf

 

I'm pretty sure that doesn't take into account trigger angle in the ecu though.

 

no it dont, what is important is that the rotor is lined up with the post on the cap midway in the advance range favoring advances where the most spark energy is needed. the trigger offset is just an arbitrary number used to adjust the output of the unit to match comannded, typically the degrees in crank revolution of the triggering edge of the input is away from tdc. in a perfect world on a tfi setup the number = crank degrees a timing light gives with the spout out(dizzy controlling timing)

 

Should the idle valve type on the base map for a 5.0 be set to "none"? That's what mine has. (Had). When I changed it to PWM the car actually runs pretty good and doesn't rev to 3500 when I click on "use table" in ignition options. It's also not full lean anymore...slightly rich now.

Was (is) my base map wrong or am I off base here?

 

So, to summarize:

1) New MSPNP on a 5.0 with 42lb injectors.
2) On the 5.0 base tune with no changes except req. fuel to 9.4, car revs to 3500 rpm when timing is changed from "fixed" to "use table"
3) Engine idles very lean with timing in "fixed"
4) Base tune has idle valve of "none". If I change to "PWM", everything seems to sort itself out. No more lean, no more revving to 3500.

 

I believe you have to have the PWM circuit correctly built on your board, but yes my mustang is set to PWM closed loop with a valve frequency of 6 (*30.5).

 

We had a few early versions of the newest revision of the MSPNP ship with the idle control set wrong - turning it to PWM should fix it. We have posted a revised base tune on the MSPNP website, and current production ones ship with this tune. Sorry about the mix up.

 

I've found an MSPNP page that has two Mustang base tunes, but I get warnings when I load them into TS. IIRC the warnings mention something akin to 330MP. Could you give the link to the exact base tune that I should have, Matt?

 

The warnings are most likely due to the tune being written on older/newer firmware. Loaed the tune, read the warnings, it will say what is different, if the changes make sence your fine. Most of the time, the newer firmware will have a new table or option the original tune did not support. it then usually defaults that table/function to a value that basically ignores it.

 

Got it. I'm a just a little hesitant since many of the MS manuals/instructions are filled with warnings about mismatched firmware ruining various ignition components.There's a lot to take in for a new guy. I mean, the sheer volume of info (often conflicting) spread across a dozen websites is intimidating.

 

Matt, I think I'm all screwed up. The MSPNP box that was delivered to me last December has the new "single-plug" serial port instead of the older nine-pin output. So I would assume I have the newest version?

When I run a differences report between the tune I currently have loaded and the "3.3.1a" base tune on your site, I definitely do see differences in the idle valve settings. But I also see major differences between the MAP sensors. Mine says "custom" but the 331a base tune shows an MPXH6400. Which MAP do I actually have?

 

All the Mustang MSPNPs use the "single plug" serial connection as the 9 pin wouldn't clear the Fox body mounting bracket.

You've got an MPXH6400. We had originally used a custom setting because the older firmware needed to be set to "custom" if the MAP and baro sensors were different. The 3.3.x code lets you specify both separately.