Ive been busy this summer working and playing with the car but I finally got some time to post some updates about my car... Its a long one here I go:

So, as some of you might remember I used to have a destroked 440 with a TV series 88 mm turbo. The block was leaking and giving me problems being a crappy casting so I decided to step it up.

Started off 1st installing an RMS Alter K with 12" drilled & slotted Wilwoods, I was just running a DC K member before and the new block is Hemi mounts..
This being a street car I got the sway bar with it too, I haven't installed it yet since the Alter K is so much of an improvement in handling over the torsion bars to start.

My new combo is similar to the one Nigel is just starting....
Its a KB block'd 572 with a callies 4.5 stroke crank, oliver billet rods, ross custom pistons, ported victor heads, custom crane roller cam and hacked up indy intake.

The turbo is a precision 114 mm 1.5 A/R G trim. Im still running my 1 3/4" primary headers, 2 1/2" crossover and 4" DP with a 50 MM S/S HKS wastegate.

The final compression ended up at 7.7:1 which worked out great. Id rather fill the space with boost rather then compression!
Im still running a Megasquirt II ECU but stepped the injectors upto some precision 160's.
I didnt want to get rid of my 727 because a 2 speed kinda sucks on the street.. So I added some more goodies to it (input shaft etc) with my same ol tight 10" converter and 3.55's.

Ive tuned the car to about 11.9:1 AFR on the chassis dyno and made some real good numbers. At 9 LBS it makes just over 1100RWHP and 912 RWTQ corrected, on 11 lbs boost it makes 1326 RWHP @ 6300 RPM and 1104 RWTQ @ 6300 (I just mash the gas on the dyno and dont load it up..) which makes for a handfull on the street! Haven't turned it up past 11 lbs yet..
Ive been mixing some VP in with pump gas while tuning just to be safe but it will run on pump gas just fine. I found my vortec mondo cooler adds about 100RWHP and drops the intake temps to almost ambient when your pumping room temp water through it.

The big problem I have now is traction! Ive launched it with boost and it just kills the 325 ET street radials or my ET drag 29.5/10.5's.
As soon as I get on the TB at or just above 3400 it is on boost and fully spooled. At 3200 it sits at 0 vacuum or 1 lb on the brake as soon as you hit the throttle. If you just put it on the transbrake it will almost instantly drive through the converter and make 9 lbs boost right now.
What ive found works the best to get a chance at traction is launch it at 3200 rpm on the 2 step then it brings the boost in slower but still seems to spin. Ive tried at 3400 and it just spins more as it comes on. My cal tracs with this much power just cant hook on the crappy tracks around here! Im thinking a backhalf and 4 link will be in order this winter with some big et streets.
Another thing I need to add is another wastegate to bring the boost down so I can start launching at a higher RPM. Another neat thing is that my ET street radials make my 60 foots in the constant 1.4's but as soon as it hits boost they just spin, the ET drags spin at the start (never had a 1.4 with same launch RPM) but seem to get traction at around the 1/8th mile.

The 1st time to the track with my ET Street radials I ran a 10.1 at 114 MPH petaling all the way down, another mid 10 at the similar mph, then a 14 second run pitching the car sideways down the track.
The following weekend I went down to a different track with my ET drags and made these 2 runs on video plus another at 9.22 @ 146 with crappy 1.53 60 foot petaling it twice when it was spinning and drifting towards the center line.

I wish I would have painted big white lines on my tires because you cant really see what their doing.
Haven't been running the intercooler much either.. I find it just makes it more of a handful!

http://www.blackx.enormouslysideways.net/EFI%20Dart%209.18.wmv 2nd Pass 9 lbs boost (just running it on the wastegate spring), car started spinning hard when I hit 2nd so I petaled it. 1.54 60 foot

http://www.blackx.enormouslysideways.net/EFIDart%20150+%20pass.mpg The car came out of the hole with its worse 60 foot ever 1.56! running on spring still but did a 9.10 @ 151. Seems that each run with a crappier 60 foot improved my ET...LOL There is tireslip all the way down more so in 2nd and just as im shifting 3rd. Short shifting 2nd in the run helped out.

I have had it fully grab out of the hole on a fully prepped launch pad at the local 100 foot drags they had this summer and it hasn't ever pulled close to that hard at the track. It should run 8.8's-8.5's quite easily with good traction. The thing is still a heavy tank (3550 or so with me in it). 32x17.5 ET Streets will fix that...

I didnt regret going to a bigger engine at all besides the traction problems now.. it breaks loose at 100 MPH with ease when you jump on it, it still goes good on the street just with a lot of spin! Over 100 RWHP per lb of boost is sure nice with instant spool!!

The best run I had with the other engine was a 9.6 with a 1.46 60 foot at 11 lbs boost and the best it ever made for power on the same chassis dyno was 985 RWHP at 17 lbs boost but never had it down the track with that much boost.

I wanted to goto that Dynomax power to the wheels dyno shootout since I run a dynomax bullet for my muffler.. Show the guys there some real mopar power .. But the bastards never came to the northwest little own canada.... Closest was Reno but thats still a 17 hr drive from here..

heres some pics.. I have some more pics around Ill post.

 

Let me just be the first to say ...


JESUS!

That thing is sick. Thank god there are a few people out there other than me building a turbo mopar, and yours is a great example. Traction will definitely be in order. You might be able to get away with throwing ladder bars under the car and mini tubbing it, 4 links are only really better if you are going to tweak the suspension all the time, and try to get every last bit out of it. I only give this advice because putting ladders on a car is EASY, and they work great, and doing a backhalf is a huge job comparatively (im doing one). There are a bunch of guys going 7's on tiny tires and drag radials, so it can definitely be done, if the combo is sorted out right. But im sure you already know all of that. Great job!

 

Nice Dart Where abouts in Canada are you ? Im in New Brunswick.

 

Man, that is so trick!!!!! $10,000 motor, $250 ECU. I love it!

And it's flat black. Extremely cool.

 

Im in Alberta.. somewhat close to nitrousr... funny thing is I went racing to saskatchewan a few weeks ago and every 5th person asked me if I knew him.

The car is mini tubbed and springs are moved.. I thought the Cal trac's would be the ticket and they were when I had the other engine with less torque. If the tracks here were as sticky as some ive seen I wouldnt have any problems whatsoever.. But they all suck for prep.. If Im going to cut the car up I think I might as well do a 4 link... Then I can still run my Radials or similar and give them the most bite possible. Also I think ladder bars on the street would kill the ride even my Caltracs when you have preload make it a little bumpy on railroad tracks. Been looking at the Art Morrison backhalf kits.. they look interesting..

I love my MS II.. Its so easy to setup and tune it almost does it, itself! Your success with an MS II is all in the initial program setup.. once you have that you can start tuning and your off to the races!
Ive tuned FAST, Big Stuff 3, AEM and some electromotive stuff but after looking at those I dont think any one of them have anything on my MS II. I would like the interpolating option on VE tables like the FAST ecu tho..

Just cause its cheap doesnt mean it sucks .. remember I run 3 Walbro 255's which replaced those POS pair of A1000's I had.

Oh and its tremclad flat black if your trying to place the colour! LOL..

Also everything fits under the hood.. thats the main thing I was going for. Then your just driving another primer'd POS.. Should have seen the look of this guy in a new mustang when he floored it beside me.. I dont think he ever saw someone pull away that hard in a cloud of smoke before...

 

Holy crap! Dude, where have you been hiding? Your car is a mega bad ass for sure. I love it!

I'm trying to build a similar setup for my Challenger. I hope you won't mind me picking your brain a bit. I have a few questions maybe you can help me out.

First off, I just asked those guys at Precision Turbo about the 114mm and they told me "It's not available yet". What? When they told me that I thought I would have to settle for a PT106 with 1.50 housing. Can I call them back and tell them how busted they are? Wonder why they would fib to me like that?

I'd sure like to get a look at your cam specs, or PM me if you'd rather not post it. I'm still pondering over mine.

I already have an Aeromotive Eliminator pump so I was hoping to save some money by just buying a second one for my dual pump setup. What was your experience with the A1000's that turned you off? I'd hate to have to ditch a $450 pump that I already have. Also what size fuel lines do you run? Do you have a fuel cell or sumped tank?

Did you have any trouble with your Victor heads. How long have you had this engine together? I was really interested in those heads but until recently they seemed to be unobtainium. What rockers did you use, and did you have to grind on the heads any for pushrod clearance?

How long did it take you to get that KB block? I waited 6 months for mine, but I hope it'll be worth the wait.

Can you tell me what your pulse widths are at idle with the 160 lb injectors. I've been wondering if I'll have trouble achieving a decent idle quality at say 650 rpm. I ws considering going with a set of RC injectors, you have any experience with them? Any particular reason you chose the Precision injectors?

Do you have any idea what your back pressure is with the 2.5" crossover. I'm actually pretty relieved to hear that's what your running cause I've got the 1 3/4 primaries and 3 inch crossover, I was worried it might be a choke point. Where did you route your crossover? Do you run duals? You already mentioned you have muffs, so I figure it has to be duals but looks like you have side dumps right around mid-door? Really like to see some pics if you have any.

Now you have me re-thinking my rear suspension plans. My car is going to be 90% street so I just couldn't justify the expense of a back half job. I'm definitely mini-tubbing but the question I guess is ladder bar vs. caltrac/mono-leaf. Any additional thoughts?

I'm hoping to run drag radials. As was mentioned, and I'm sure you already know, there are lots of cars (even heavy ones) managing pretty well on relatively small drag radials. Some are running low 5's in the 1/8th, that would sure satisfy me if I could ever get there.

Well, I'll stop with the grand inquisition now, hoping I didn't put you out with all these questions. Anyways I need to stop and clean all the drool off my keyboard.

Awesome car dude, simply awesome!

Cheers,
Nigel

 

Yeah, what they said!!!! We finally have a bunch of guys with running stuff! To bad we're scattered all over the globe, It would be cool to get them all together somewhere. I suggest somewhere real close to my house.

 

Thanks for the comments guys!
I hope I can help anyone with their questions and hopefully offer some sound advice.

Before starting my build or in the process it would have been nice to have someone who had done it before!
Also Don Bailey helped me towards a starting point for a cam which helped immensely!

Nigel- Im working on a long winded response for you.. Ill finish it for you soon. I Pm'd you a week ago but never got a response?

 

I ended up getting lucky getting my 114 MM turbo! .. I was pricing a 106 from a friend who works at a precision dealer here in canada and had some questions which he called them about. While talking to them they mentioned they were just coming out with a 114 in a limited run (25 units) offered to dealers only at 1st. So my friend ran that past me and had it on order that day.. It got there then needed to be recalled before it even hit my hands, after all of that stuff I finally got it. Its funny how many people want one when you have one of the only ones! I got a good deal and couldnt have done better without going through a dealer. Strange huh? usually anyone can buy cheaper factory direct.. They sure are good to their dealers. Supposedly it is now not being made anymore.. and just have replacement parts. They are making a billet wheel one?? All I know.. is it works great and haven't had any problems with it thus far!

Throw that Aeromotive junk away!! I know 3 friends who have had problems with them besides me. They just can't put out enough in an EFI application. In a carb'd app they work great but they suck on higher pressure.
I dare say that a Walbro GSL 392 pump will put out the same amount of fuel or better then an A1000! Look at my thread about my Walbro pumps and do something similar. I am working on switching them running 1 all the time and kicking in the other 2 on boost and RPM.. just haven't had the time to switch the wiring and setup the ecu for it.

I run 2 -8 feeds and a -10 feed to my pumps, you can never have enough feed! 2 -8's would be enough but having the extra feed is just for insurance. Im running 2 -8 lines to my rails and a -8 return line. I ended up putting in a fuel cell just after trying to fit my battery box and intercooler in the trunk with the stock filler tube. So I cut the wheelwell out and replaced it with a fuel cell then made more room and hid my pumps underneath. It sucks leaving your car parked with stuff hanging off the back, if its out of sight you cant tell it has big fuel pumps.

I had the common problem with my victors.. If you read on moparts (guys are soo touchy there.. cant say anything bad about indy stuff or anything for that matter!) I posted on the victor thread there.
I had to clearance my pushrods a whole bunch on my victors and broke through to the intake port in a few spots. Thats the thing with big max wedge ports.. So I fixed them with some expoxy and it was all good. Im running hughes engine rockers and they are working great so far.
This engine went together this spring has been running since then.
Funny thing.. Same flow bench with a ported 440-1 and my ported victors, both heads were ported by the same porter. The victor intake port outflowed the Indy!! I was overly surprized to say the least! I dont know if he did the exhaust, I just gave him my head because he wanted to compare it to some indy heads he had sitting there for comparison sake.
Supposedly they have the victor problems sorted out now..

I ordered my KB block at the start of november and received it.. hmm I think it was the end of february? Good things come with time! The block is a very nice piece! As you can tell in your pictures. The only things I did to mine was pop the frost plugs and take the casting rods out and just take the sharp edges off the bottoms of the cylinders. The KB block will handle anything you can throw at it, you made a wise decision and Ken Black is a stand up guy! I would recommend KB to anyone based solely off the customer service!
If you decide to run cometics.. Heres some info for you! I ended up getting water in my oil on the engine dyno (ran it in without the turbo and just a carb). What the problem ended up being is the small coolant holes in the heads overlapped the sleeves in the block and using the sleeves as canals to the valley. Simple fix - took the heads off, drilled and tapped the coolant holes overlapping and fixed! Tom the shop manager at KB helped me figure out that problem.

I was looking at a datalog and it seems to be about 2 ms PW at idle on my 160's, with a 13.8:1 AFR at idle. (my idle is about 900-1000). I can lean it out even more at idle if needed.. It will idle at 700-800 and still have enough resolution to get it lean. As long as the ecu you pick has good resolution like an MS II.
Picking the precisions was easy because I was already ordering my turbo from them and wanted a set of flow matched injectors. I didnt want to risk a set of non flow matched injectors - even though most are pretty close.

The choke point on any big CID turbo project is the exhaust housing and turbine. I dont have any backpressure numbers yet but I will get some when I get a pressure gauge on my exhaust. As long as your A/R and trim on your exhaust wheel is sized properly, the header size/crossover doesn't seem to make much difference IMHO.
My crossover runs from the passenger header over to the drivers side between the engine and rad. The exhaust is a single 4" DP with 1 Dynomax bullet, the muffler just makes the exhaust tone a little quieter and mellowed. I would switch it to 5" if that was in abundance when we were building the exhaust.

When thinking about the suspension I was going to do a ladder bar but then saw the cal-tracs.. So I went with them! Less cutting! Who knows if the ladder bars will hook good.. they should but the streetability will suffer a little.. Hence why I want to goto a 4 link setup. If you have sticky tracks around I dont think the cal-tracs would do that bad. If I was going for max traction I would just backhalf it and be done. You can run the biggest drag radials under it and adjust the 4 link to put the power down or at least thats my thought..

I could give my opinions and thoughts for hours.. But you have to remember.. opinions are like belly buttons.. Everyone has one!

Hope this long winded response could help you out!

 

I didn't have a chance to watch those vids until now....man, for coming out of the hole so soft, that thing just KILLS out the backdoor! Looks like you've got your hands full driving it.

+1million on Walbros killing everything on the market for $150. Just cause they don't cost $1000 and aren't shiney and red doesn't mean they can't go on a big $$ buildup. Your car is a great example of this.

Do you have a wideband? If so, what kind? I think you told me but I forgot, hah.

Yeah, and they're afraid of even a little fucking swearing.

Great info on the Victor heads. Sucks that you had to chop away at new stuff just to get it to work! Would the problem have been better with offset rockers? Or did you have offset rockers and you had to do that anyway? Also, I checked a little while ago, and Jeff from Modern Cylinder has a pretty killer program for Victors (as well as for plain Eddies).

P.S. My favorite part about the PT114 is on their website, the HP range is "call." Hahaha!! Awesome.

 

Great looking stuff!

Great looking car?

 

I read the thread about the 114mm, too bad they seemed to have dropped that. I guess I'll have to make do with a 106.

I'll have to think about the fuel pump situation. I will probably still use the Eliminator pump since I already have it, but maybe wire it up as the secondary pump and use a Walbro as the primary.

The RC injectors are flow matched as well. Do you know what brand injectors Precision uses? The RC's are manufactured by Lucas and I believe they are disc style injectors, which are easier to control at small pulse widths than pintle injectors.

At 7.7 compression it seems like you could turn the boost up quite a bit over the 11 psi your running, of course that would be later after you figure out what to do about traction. I'll be running more compression because, like I said, mine will be 90% street and I think when I do go to the track I'll mix in a little race gas just for good measure.

Being so biased towards street driving I'd rather have the higher compression to help out low end torque, throttle response, and even better mileage. Yes, I'm sure everyone is laughing at that remark, but I do concern myself with gas milage on this car. When I had the 5-speed my car actually averaged 18.5 mpg highway last year. People always seem amazed when I tell them that, but it's a fact and it's completely possible to do with an overdrive trans, efi with good low-load efficiency tuning, tall tires and gears. Now that I have the powerglide I'm sure milage is down a bit, but my converter is real tight so I don't think it's dropped off a lot.

Great info, thanks for sharing!

 

I run a tech edge WB to my MS II, ive had it for at least 4 or maybe 5 years now and still working fine! Ive been using those innovate LC-1's and they work great for being so cheap.

I do run the Hughes offset rockers for the victor heads.. and still needed grinding! Oh well.. thats what you have to do for an indy alternative.

The guys at precision told me the 114 should be ok for around 2700 HP.. It all depends the engine its on. The turbo is great because it doesnt even spin that fast or so it seems. The BOV just kind of huffs at 9 lbs not a big audible "psssh" and you can just barely hear the turbo. The reason in the vid you can hear loud it is my tail pipe was off during those runs, have to revise a different mounting system for the exhaust that gives me more ground clearance.

That would work good running a walbro all the time (Quiet and OEM quality!) and that Aeromotive as your booster. Just remember to get the high pressure GSL 392.

I dont know what brand precision uses, they are pintle though. As long as they are flow matched your good to go.

.. I think I could run 14-15 on pump gas quite easily with my mondo cooler... But adding boost just makes it run slower since its just spinning harder. If you can run 8.5-9:1 it would still be a monster even without the turbo. My engine made a gob of torque N/A on the engine dyno and about 1 HP per cube even at the low compression.

Keep the laughs to a minimum.. But I too tune mine for good economy. It is a street car - my AFR tables off boost are very "Gas savings" oriented. Also another reason I kept my 3 speed

Hey Robert.. you didnt by chance notice the "Period correct" Dingle balls in the back window did you? They were in the car when I bought it and they are staying there

 

wow new set up looks killer, love those KB blocks! Hoping santa brings one this year not sure how many ticks are left in this time bomb im driving. Lol at the moparts comment put up a tech question get a couple of replies ask what color to paint your trailers spare tire rim =3 pages

 

I run a single walbro GSL 392 and it has maxed my little 64mm compressor on my turbo. I am going to upgrade turbos but don't seem to need to upgrade pumps. I too hate a vehicle that guzzles gas when not on the throttle. I realize I am not in the same ball game as you guys but I keep my little holley tuned to about 13.5-14.0 cruise and run 45* of timing at low throttle. That is one wild ride.

 

Yes, per my comment.

The car is great, hell I don't even mind the primer,
I question your interior decorator.

 

i saw that very subdue'd looking car run here in Swift Current. -people are still talking about it around here. -VERY BADASS!! i hope you'll bring it back here again once the chassis is all sorted out. -too cool.

 

nitrousr- Better get on that.. the "loonie" is right there with the green back... and the KB block is the best on the market (insert moparts whining here about their indy block ).

CW - How is that pump fairing under low pressure? does it overspeed? or? Ive been scared to try them in a low pressure app..

Robert- LOL.. I should scan in some old pictures of the car when it had the slant 6.. right when I bought it - It had a complete full fur interior!! The dashpad was fur, the trim inside was covered in fur, the steering wheel had fur and heck even the parcel shelf was fur! It was awesome! Then I realized.. it was ugly.. and the car was gold leaf metallic. The dingle balls are still cool though.. They help to distract people from seeing it has a cage

Thx bubba! I enjoyed swift current.. You guys do a great job I really enjoyed the racing and watching the races! I even won the 1st round of brackets! Having a primered subdue'd car works good sometimes - the guy thought my race number 120 was my dial in not the 10.0..lol So needless to say his tree came down 1st him thinking he was the faster car and the tower screwed up he just sat there while I drove away. I spoke to him after about it and he said didnt clue in as to why I told him not to red light and im just tnt'ing when we were in the staging lanes before we ran. He thought it was some sort of psychological game - When I was just trying to be nice and give him a free round. My friend said he saw the whole side of my car when he was watching me go down the track from behind. The datalog of my runs showed my TPS looked like a heart monitor.. lol
Wish I could have gotten more traction.. kinda sucks to have a car that should do something run crappy times, though I had great 60 foots. There were some cars running in the 8's there.. they had full backhalfs though. But after pitching the car near sideways all the way down the track I think the safe thing is a 4 link with a bigger tire. Set it on docile and go bracket racing! LOL
We will be back next year and hopefully with some more cars.

 

3 years and counting of street duty. It is no daily driver but has seen trips of over 2 hours constant run time and zero issues. Usually is run for a 1/2 hour at a time. It has sat in traffic in 100* weather for 1/2 hour at a time and all is well. Hope my luck continues. It is quet too.

 

Dart_388, how do you set your caltracs? What shocks are you running and if they're adjustable what setting? Also, what rear end and gears? Got any more pics of your car?

Thanks!