Attached is a scan of my Cam Card. This cam was cut by Ed Curtis at FTI. This cam was cut for my engine when I thought it was going to stay NA. It was cut to accomodate my stock shortblock with Ported Cobra Intake and AFR 165's with 58cc chambers. Is there anything I could do to help accomodate this cam with my Turbo Setup. When we installed cam we did it straight up I was told by the guy that actually did it. No advance or retard of cam. I am wondering if this is why my car pulls so hard but then falls off map after about 5K. When I had the chip guy burn the chip he had this Cam card and all specs of my car. He chose to burn chip as if it was completely stock car with just the turbo and injectiors. Even though it has Aluminum Heads and this cam. I think this cam is holding me back but the tune is not helping. Please Help if any advice can be given. Always seemed with NA that this cam and AFR heads could take a lot of timing. At one point NA car ran best with up to 40-42 total timing. Now with the turbo the car is around 20-26 total. Seems to have lost a lot of timing. Just to tell anyone. I am running the Crane Gold Race Rockers 1.6 Ratio

 

The cam is what you say it is. It's an NA cam. It doesn't have enough lobe separation to work with a turbo set up. If you try to get aggressive with timing you will smoke a piston for sure. Low timing is normal, but you need to know what total timing is, because 20-26 is a pretty wide range to be flirting with. Your car would benifit greatly from a turbo cam and some dyno time.

 

Does this cam have less potential then the stock cam? Wondering because Chris95SVT was running stock cam with good results and I just do not feel this cam with same potential. Was going to dyno on saturday but fell through. Where should I set FP and Timing at? What timing is base for most chips (JMS chip)

 

It would definitely benefit you to get a turbo grind. Check out www.cammotion.com or call Precision Turbo www.precisionte.com I have had good luck with them in the past.

 

Who is the most preferred Turbo Cam Company

I think it is safe to say that this cam sucks for Turbo. Who should I talk to about getting the right cam?

 

Re: Who is the most preferred Turbo Cam Company

I would say save your money for that AEM and just get a stock cam, or if you can get one cheap an F-Cam (which you can get cheap). Both will make more than enough power with your combo to split the stock block

 

Hey scuba what part of Milwaukee you from? Do you know any good tuners around?

 

I think Ed Curtis is going to hunt you down for posting those specs

 

Maybe? I would not have but I needed advice. I know how he likes to keep his numbers and grinds secret.

 

Don't worry, he's probably too busy anyway to care anymore

 

So many 'cam experts' on this board it seems. LOL

That cam is a variation of one of Ed's most successful small grinds. Yours is on a slightly wider LSA though. That cam has 2.5 degrees of overlap @.050 lift & WILL make power.
The problem is the intake is too small & the exhaust is too big for the turbo setup.

By comparison here's my FTI turbo specs:
230/218 113LSA 111ICL
VE's:
IVO 4 BTDC
IVC 46 ABDC
EVO 44 BBDC
EVC 6 BTDC

-2 degrees of overlap @.050
Adding 4.5 degrees of overlap to my particular camshaft (by tightening the LSA to 111) would only INCREASE power throughout the RPM band. But look at the difference in the valve events. Your exhaust is opening too early compared to the intake closing. These 2 Valve events are what is limiting the turbo setup...but not neccessarily the RPM capability.

You could retard your cam 4 degrees from where it is now....& that would make basically clear the intake closing & exhaust opening events, but then the overlap would be in a 'not so ideal' location for a boosted motor.

However...
For power to drop off at 5Krpm with this cam is not right. It should mimic the powercurve of the N/A setup.....at least as far as where peak power occurs. Are you sure you're not getting valvefloat?

Power under the curve with this cam will not be matched by the stock GT or F303.

 

How do I know If I am getting valve float and how would I get it or fix it?

 

I agree. Not ideal, but will definitely make power and not be the cause of a power drop @5k.


Overlap=power, even with turbos.

(I used to not think so, as I was concerned about reversion, but ShaneH set me straight, which led me to trying some different cams)

These are specs/results from memory-


1st cam, single turbo setup

214/222 114lsa 112 icl

711rwhp 745rwtq @19psi

Nice driveability, good response.


2nd cam, single turbo setup

226/218 116lsa 112lsa

740rwhp 750rwtq @19psi

Didn't like the driveability. Felt lazy down low and had noticeably more lag. Tossed this cam in the circular file.



3rd cam, single turbo setup

224/224 113lsa 111icl

762rwhp 760rwtq @19psi

Peak #'s up a bit, driveability was good, but had some cam surge below 2k. Of importance that the peak #'s don't show, is that is was up over 100rwhp @6k rpm's compared to the previous cams. (I attribute this to the increased overlap)


This same cam with my twin turbo setup did-

868rwhp 832rwtq @19psi

Pulled like a mother up top, but as stated before had a bit of cam surge. As being a comfortable street car is one of my main concerns, I switched the cam to-

218/218 114lsa 112icl

834rwhp 837rwtq @19psi

This cam has great driveability. Very smooth down low, can barely hear it at idle and cruises smooth at 1,200rpm in overdrive. Paid the price in power though, not only in peak, but approximately 100rwhp less @7000 I suppose everything is a compromise.


So, from what I've seen, the cams my engine has liked, have been more along the lines of "naturally aspirated" cams, than wide lsa split duration cams, and more overlap=more power, especially at high rpms.

 

Maybe it is just my tune or valve float. Seems odd if it is valve float. Just about 3000 Miles on a set of new AFR 165 heads. Could it be anything else. Also anyone know how hard it is to install an AEM EMS on my car?

 

You can see valvefloat on a Dynograph. The power drops rapidly when it's occuring. You can also feel it....almost feels like you're hitting a rev-limiter. I've felt MANY types of valvefloat....from a single spring with one cylinder dropping (like one fouled plug) to all 8 intake or exhaust floating which feels like the motor hits a brick wall.
If you have the 'upgraded' AFR valvespring package then I'd really look at valvefloat as the culprit. Aggressive ramps like the XE profiles on your bumpstick can easily cause valvefloat with most aftermarket spring packages (ones with 300lbs or less open pressure). Add boost to the intake & you need more spring....but there's more. The boost on the exhaust valve is a LOT higher then on the intake valve on a Turbo setup....so you need more spring there as well.
With the FTI cam I have I was getting valvefloat at ~6100rpm with Ed's trick single pure-street valvesprings that measured 135lbs seat & 325lbs open. I slid in some matching inner springs to bring open pressure up to ~400lbs & have not had a problem since.

Like INTMD8 said, Overlap = power plain & simple. The cam is not your problem.

Unlike my motor, yours has a LOT more intake flow & may not neccessarily benefit from a fatty reverse-split like mine.

One more thing...
You can check for valvefloat (definatively) fairly easily. Pop off a valvecover & take off one of each valvespring (intake & exhaust). If the locks are hamered into the retainers, you hit valvefloat. If the locks pop out of the retainers easily, it isn't valvefloat.

 

So then what would I need to fix? Springs ?

 

[Corral.net]Just upgrade to FTI AFR 205 heads, large bore Dart stroker, billet crank, oliver rods, and Gen. 7 stand alone, because, you'll regret being cheaper later :tard: [/Corral.net]

Anyone else notice that people on Corral don't know what a budget is? :stickpk:

 

Yep, gotta replace the valvesprings if you're getting valvefloat.
I've had VERY good luck with Ed's PS3 springs. I've used them in quiet a few aggressive setups.

 

Greenfield. I ran a set of AFR 185's back on a 90 coupe and I had to scrap the stock AFR springs as I was getting float as well.

No, there is no good tuners (there is plenty of dynos but no tuners) in the immediate area. I would say if you really want to make it worth your while, go to Speed Inc in shitcago. I think there is a place that Engineerd on here bought his Cosmetic HG from that is in SE WI that might tune? Not sure though.

Also I just say someone on here that is from milwaukee that might know of a closer tuner than chicago...his screen name is something like "blitzkrieg"

 

For tuners in Chicago, check out Sound Performance. They specialize in turbo cars, and can tune FAST, AEM and others. 630-893-5002. http://www.sound-performance.com