Hello all, new to this forum and hoping for some help.

I have a 2017 Ford Raptor with the 3.5 Ecoboost. Ive searched high and low for what can be wrong with the turbo system. Been through forums, google, ford and on the phone with manufactures. This my be lengthy but i'll do my best to keep it short.

My truck sat for a little over a year while we built out the suspension. Before it went under the knife when driving hard you could smell oil burning. I assumed it was from blow by and payed little attention to it. But the truck dove as it should and there was nothing noticeable going wrong with the engine. Just broke the suspension.

After the truck sat during the build it started up and we went for a drive. After about 80 miles the passenger side turbo went out. What a mess! It was like the shaft, turbine and bearings just disintegrated. After further inspection of the driver side turbo having nicks in the compressor wheel, it was decided that both would be replaced. So the thought was go bigger.

Enter the Garrett stage 2 Powermax turbos and bigger fuel injectors. We spent major amounts of time cleaning out shrapnel, replace oil feed and drain lines and the turbos. Followed everything that was asked for this install. Uploaded new tune and we were off. 6 miles later passenger side turbo has catastrophic failure again. Pull turbo out and see the shaft is split in half. Looks like it was put in a metal lathe and cut in half. Call the retailer and the ask us to ship the turbo in for inspection. They decided to replace the turbo under warranty and sent a new one. Only took 3 months and no one let us know what the thought was behind the failure. We put the truck back together and took it on a trailer to ford.

The ford tech had it for about a month and a half. Went through the engine, oil system, cooling system ect ect. They give the truck a clean bill of health and sent me on my way. Oh the excitement for 11 miles and then boom passenger side turbo failure. Took the truck back to ford and again its torn apart. Heads off, oil pan out, turbos out, change pipes out ect. Ford tech says he can’t find the problem, Garrett is non responsive, retailer of turbos can t help, no one has a clue why this keeps happening.

Has anyone experience this many turbo failures this quickly or have input for what to look for. Im at a loss and have a very expensive paper weight at this point. Any help with other threads, forums, tell me to push it off a cliff, whatever you’ve got.

Photos and current engine modes for enjoyment

S&B cold air intake
AMS boost tubes
XDI Fuel pump
Ford performance spark plugs M-12405-35T Gaped to .026-.028
SPD 170 degree thermostat
SPD stainless down pipes with high flow cats and turbo adaptor
SVC front mount intercooler
Radium Oil catch cans
Borla S type mid section exhaust system
Goose tuned 91 and E85
Turbosmart blow off valve
Garrett powermac turbos
Fuel injectors 1050 cc

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It seems to me that you must be sucking some debris into the intake for some reason but that’s unlikely if the dealer gave it a clean bill. What about oil starvation? Could the oil feed line be plugged up? Take of the drain and the feed line to the turbo and make sure they are not collapsed or plugged.
Did the dealership get an oil analysis done? If not that’s the first thing I would do.

 

It definitely looks like debris hit the compressor wheel.

 

But wouldn’t that be to obvious? Maybe not but I was thinking if that turbo ran with little or no oil that the tolerances would get out of whack fast enough to cause the blades to hit the housing?

 

Check for intake tract leaks, any of those failures could be turbo overspeed. Verify your BOV are closing properly.

 

@Pro-SC we think that the damage to the drive side compressor wheel was caused by the shrapnel that went through the system when the passenger side turbo failed. we found aluminum debris in all the charge pipes all the way up to the inside of the filter. We have found no other foreign debris or ways for such to get in. The oil feed and drain lines are all brand new and clear, even the prescreens have been replace even though the original ones were not clogged. This will be the third set however we originally thought it was starvation. this lead us to get inside the motor by removing heads and the oil pan to check for obstructions in the oil passages. In short all the obvious stuff (I think) has been done by the ford tech. I'm unsure if they did an oil analysis. i will be asking them today.

@Wallace I totally agree by the placement of the nicks in the compressor wheel I would think it was debris that hit it. To @Pro-SC point of little oil and journal bearing failure in the driver side turbo do to oil starvation it could have hit the housing. But based off the picture I feel the nicks are to close to center to have hit. Im picking up the failed turbos later today and will get a closer look and may pull the driver side apart to inspect the shaft and look for slop in the bearing.

@B E N yep we have talked a lot about over spin. Both hot and cold side charge pipes hove been inspected and individually pressure check as wheel as check as a hole system before the 3rd failure. No leaks were found according to ford

 

Got the failed turbo today and tore it apart. Pictures below. looks to me like the shaft burnt up at this second small bearing. Journal bearing has spiral scaring i would think from the shaft spinning out of it on the exhaust side. Looks like the shaft is burnt up where it stepped down to a smaller shaft sized and then split in half. The brass ghost shaped piece also has some discoloration like it got hot.

could this all add up to oil starvation?

 

What about an exhaust restriction, damaged catalytic converter affecting one side or the other ? Just trying to think outside the box.

 

@mld54 the hole exhaust system is brand new. The SPD catted downpipes and the Brola mid section have about 16 total miles on them. this time is crazy loud and needs to be toned down. Sounds like a lawnmower on crack.

I was actually wondering if there was not enough back pressure in the exhaust system. But im happy were thinking out side the box as most people have given up on the problem.

 

My wild ass guess is lack of oil. Can you fire it up with the turbo off the truck and see how much oil is coming out of the feed? I did this my diy turbo mustang to blow out the hot side and test the oil feed. It filled up a 20oz bottle pretty quick.

How hard were those 11 miles any chance to you pumped the pan dry?

 

@Russell the first time the stock turbo blew was around 80 miles the second time the Garrett turbo failed was 3 miles both of which I was not the driver. I do know the 3 mile trip was around the block and was told it was normal driving.

my 11 mile trip was easy, two stop lights to the freeway, cruising speeds about 70 the 1 stop light and a parking lot. all of which were normal driving. I was nervous to drive it.

Based off of pictures the pictures i would agree with oil starvation. however the oiling system has shown to be working as it should.

Another working theory is that the truck is running lean (thrust bearing is dark purple) and overheating the turbo and the shaft has that taper and its failing form overheating.

 

Do the bov's recirculate?

 

Don't those turbos have electronic wastegates? I'd be checking the driver side boost control system, wires, actuator. If driver side is for some reason open, it'll overspeed the passenger side.
But on that note, something is very wrong for a turbo to fail in 3 miles. Overspeed won't do it in 3 miles.

Also, the shaft journals, piston ring groove, and thrust all show signs of heat from lack of oil. You also don't get those shaft marks from a properly lubricated turbo, even in overspeed and after its failed.

Add an oil pressure gauge to each turbo, that way you KNOW it's getting oil pressure. I've been through this twice with customers. They swore my turbos were bad, stuck an actual oil pressure gauge on and one engine had 7psi of cold oil pressure, the other had 30 a full minute after starting.

 

It sure looks like an oil problem. When you said it was a Garret I assumed it was a ball bearing not a journal bearing. Could it be possible that you have too much oil pressure and need a restrictor? I am not sure if the factory turbos are journal bearing but if they are ball bearing then that could be the problem. Either way hook up an oil gauge to see how much pressure you have.

 

Factory borgs are journal bearing as well.

 

Agree 100% its lack of oil. Like BBI said, they don't die in a few miles unless there's a lubrication issue.

 

X2

 

The computer shows oil pressure and the Cobb access port show it ranging from 25 to 89 psi depending on throttle position but this is sensor located at the front of the block not anywhere near turbos.

I'm are going to add pressure gauges to both turbos as I've figured out there is a port built into these turbo housing that should make it very simple to do.

@bbi_turbos I'll still have them look into the electronics on the drive side turbo just to make sure all is working.

Also looks like the oil is restricted at the inlet to the turbo. The small hole in the picture is much smaller the the diameter of the inlet piping. My novice brain says thats acting as the restrictor, lake of oil flow from the oil pump would make lake of pressure.

The only thing we have not done is the oil pump as the hole front of the motor has to come off as it driven by the crank shaft. The passenger side turbo is one of the first things for the oil circuit to goto. This was why i always thought that the pump was ok.

Could the oil drain be restricted causing low oil pressure? Assuming that the pressure bypasses it in the galley so not enough flow through the turbo?

also it think it should be said this truck on has about 43,000 miles on it. 10,000 of them i put on the truck. But hey its a ford.

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Had time today to tear down the driver side turbo for comparison. Big differences.

The shaft on the failed turbo has the black rings like its burnt and the working turbo doesn't have the discoloration. Also to be noted the working turbo shaft is much smother the the failed turbo shaft however the shaft still is not completely smooth. if you drag a finger nail on it there are still slight groves. Also to be noted the failed turbo shaft in the good journal bearing while spinning feels choppy and rough.

There is also a big difference in the thrust bearing color at the turbine. The failed turbo thrust bearing is black from heat and the working turbo thrust bearing is purple and the is some sort of a compression washer on it that is not on the failed turbo.

Strongly feeling it's a oiling starvation issue. who agrees?

@tbird @Mnlx @bbi_turbos @Pro-SC

 

Looks like someone didn't know it was left hand thread lol.

Just so you know, what you have pictured is the piston ring seal/ groove area. The thrust bearing is on the cool end.
With that said it's pretty normal to see some heat there, its connected directly to the wheel that is getting blasted with heat and it doesn't get cooled directly like the shaft does. If the shaft is any color but natural steel or straw colored, it's overheated.

The groove appears to be on the turbine end. Because that end has the most weight for oil to support, it will show first if there is an oiling problem.

What does the thrust washer and collar look like?