I want to put a motor together for my 02 mustang and I was looking at the large assortment of blocks. What is the up's and downs of blocks.
the car will be a weekend driver, will this mater with the aluminum block or not? it will have an 8.5,1 comp ratio for a boosted app. I am going to use the turbo horsepower 2 v kit. dose this make my want to use the cobra block over the aluminum block, because it will be boosted, now what if I want to grow and push the Hp levels up to the 900-1200 range dose this eliminate one of the blocks do to the Hp levels ?

Iv bin told so menny story's I dont know what to think.
please help>>thanks..

 

Hey Kris...I got your PM!

A few years ago (back when everybody was still playing with the Teksid blocks), I remember hearing a couple of different people talking about aluminum 4.6L DOHC blocks "twisting" a bit at high horsepower levels. One guy (here in FL) blamed a stock oil pump failure on it, and remedied the situation by installing billet steel oil pump gears. Another guy (in Dallas, TX) claimed that a customer's block was distorting quite a bit while it was on the dyno, but he fuct up a bunch of work that he was doing for my dad's car, so his credibility kinda went out the window.

I'm not sure of the exact differences between your stock GT iron block and a stock 03/04 Cobra iron block. I have been told that they are the same, with some machining differences.

I do, however, know of several fast local drag radial and True Street mod-motor cars (in the high 8s/low 9s) that are all running aluminum blocks. Also, look up Bridge Racing on here...they have the first 7-second mod motor car, so they are making a ton of power...check with them on the aluminum vs iron topic.

Also, ShaneH has been digging into his mod motor setup for a few years, so he knows the intricacies of them as well. See what he has to say.

As far as the Teksid vs non-Teksid blocks, neither one seems to be failing under high horsepower, so don't go throwing away a newer block for an older Teksid block if you already have one. No matter which 4.6L block you use, it's not nearly as fragile as the old 5.0L block.

I do, however, know that the iron block weighs a good chunk more than the aluminum block, so that might also be a deciding factor for you.

If you can make your 900-1200 hp without spinning the engine to the moon, then the rotating assembly will live that much longer. Unfortunately, when it comes to making big power, high RPM is a big factor, so it might be a little more of a challenge to make that kind of power under 7000 rpm.

Mark

 

I believe MMR decided so switch from iron to the aluminum GT block on their 5.4L based engine around the 1600+hp mark.
If you are not going to exceed 1000hp, then any modular production block is not going to be a problem. The aluminum is a nice option just from a weight standpoint if you have a 4.6L based engine and are reasonable priced. The options on a 5.4L are iron or GT Supercar block ($2500).

 

thank's for all the info mark, now about the 03/04 Cobra iron block. why dose mmr and C.H.P. and a haand full of outher ppl use the cobra block over the gt block, im asking bc of the coment about, [shadow=red,left]

I'm not sure of the exact differences between your stock GT iron block and a stock 03/04 Cobra iron block. I have been told that they are the same, with some machining differences.[/shadow]

or is it a prefrence or fals fealing of securitey, that they run those blocks? So i can use a GT block and be fine up to 1000hp,or what? I dont want to go for that out of the box bc i think 600 is a good round number to start with but if im going to turn it up down the road i want it to hold up for a few yrs of weekend driving and some track time on it.,,,,, so is 1000hp a falt line for the GT block or is it the same regardless of the GT or the cobra blocks?

thanks. kris.

 

Hmm, I'm not exactly sure. Personally, I would have guessed that there's a difference between the Terminator and GT iron blocks, but somebody else chimed in a while back and said that they are the same, with only a couple of small differences. I know that there's a bit of a timing cover bolt pattern difference between Terminator iron and aluminum blocks, though.

Mark

 

ok i found out that they have a diff mettel composhion, ford made the cobra blocks a little bit diff... but thats all i found out i dont know if they are softer or denser. but i want to find out more about the aluminum blocks im trying to get the Pro's and Con's of the block. i know the work done to the block will be two to three times as mouch as an iron block.

Kris..

 

I would get an aluminum block. The weight savings alone is well worth it. i went iwth a Teskid block this time around for my turbo build. Just make sure machne shop or engine builder has a clue on how to machine an aluminum block. The aluminum block that I have seen fail were because of the crank or rods busting. So what ever you do get a good rotating assembly.

 

ok now im going to use a kellogg crank and oliver rods, but i dont know if im using probe of dimond pistons yet so bottom end is no prob, but what is all this jazz about a Teskid block what are they iv only bin im the mod world for a few yrs and iv never built a mod motor befor so this is going to be a first time thing but my motor builder knows the deal. but iv never gotten a anser to what a Teskid block is ?

 

Teksid blocks were the original 4V block and are found in '93-'98 Mark VIIIs and '96-'98 Cobra's

 

well thair is my anser thanks for the inlightenment...

 

Wen a rod goes on an iron block it takes out the cylinder wall and a little more. When a rod goes on a aluminum block it turns the block into two parts. Either way just make sure to have a well built rotating assembly and a good tune.

 

Just use your gt block, since you already have one. It is more than sufficient. ANd for what your 'goals' are, I cannot imagine a reson under the sun that you would even be contemplating probe pistons Diamond, CP, all the way. Lol at billet rods with probe pistons.

What kind of high powered car experience do you have?

 

what kind of exp do i have i come from chevy ehp and if u want i can show u on the track i have an all stock lt1 that runs 12.02 @116mph and no heads cam and just a 50 shot for the hole with 1.6 60s with stock rear and no gears i know how to make a chevy run but dont know what is good for a ford and dont critisize some wone that is not a ford guy i dont think that is verry profesh. but i called dimond for my pisyons and that is what we are going to use and the only reason i said aney thing about prob was bc my friend runs them and has had good luck with them on 674hp 4.6 with a d1... bu if what is true about a stock block thank you for the info....

 

Well, he's not criticizing anyone, but from your posts, it sounds like your experience is relatively low and he's checking to make sure you aren't getting in over your head. Jumping into the deep end when you can't swim is the best way for a project to fail. You just need to have thick skin around here, but at least you won't get any bullshit answers from asswipes like you would over on the Corral.

Besides, there's a huge difference between a 116 mph car and one that makes 900-1200 hp.

Mark

 

+1, and thanks for backing me up, Mark.

I wasnt trying to be critical, in fact, you got alot nicer side of me than most new guys around here do. I tend to be very critical of the "I want 1000 hp" threads that we see here all the time. I , frankly, dont care that your nifty chebby runs a 12.whatever at 116. Mark is right, ther e is a HUGE difference between 12 seconds and 8 seconds, which is what you are talking about with a 3200 lb, 1000 hp car.

Actually, the simple fact that your reply to my "What kind of high hp car experience do you have" question is that your lt1 makes 400 rwhp shows that clearly you have ablotutely no idea what you are getting into. Call me when you give up and sell your parts at a total loss, I love a good deal.

 

Besides, there's a huge difference between a 116 mph car and one that makes 900-1200 hp


i understand this and i am full aware of this gap in hp my lt1 makes only 372 rwhp and now i want 600 from a mod motor and i just have short fuse, but i know i dont have mouch exp, but i do do my homework when i go to do somthing, but i just am on edge bc of all the ppl that run what i have into the ground bc ware i come from if ur not running 10,s u arnt shit, thats how it is ware i come from, sorry i poped off like that,

But in a finer note i took my stang out for the first time since we put the 6 puck clutch in and got like 200 mil on it and went dome and with my six speed and my MT etstreets i just put on made my car feal like a slug bc the car can get out of the hole, i can rev it to 5000rpm and it just dead hooks and dies,lol i need to get my motor combo soon so i can get the turbo kit on it ,

But sorry for busting ur nuts i forget my place on the toetum pole some times,,,

 

I wasnt trying to be critical, in fact, you got alot nicer side of me than most new guys around here do. I tend to be very critical of the "I want 1000 hp" threads that we see here all the time. I , frankly, dont care that your nifty chebby runs a 12.whatever at 116. Mark is right, ther e is a HUGE difference between 12 seconds and 8 seconds, which is what you are talking about with a 3200 lb, 1000 hp car.


welll i want 600hp and the room to grow to 1000 later, and i under stand what u are geting at, and i am not trying to piss aney one off here so srry for the PMS streek.

O and i got a GT block from my friend last night and my motor builder told me that you were right and we can use a gt block. with no probs in sight from a block stand point. thanks

 

build for 1k hp, run 600, and that thing will never break. Mod motors are exceptionally strong, Just buy some good pistons, have assembled by a professional (plenty of amateur built motors run, but even more don't) and put some good cams in it the first time (that was my mistake, re-using the stock cams. Not that they won't make alot of power, but they are very expensive to go back and do later)

 

Properly prepped, both the Teksid aluminum blocks and the stock 8 bolt, forged Cobra crank will live well into the 1500 HP range.

The iron blocks are good up to about 700 hp. Anything over that and I'd start to worry about it coming apart. Almost EVERY stock block Cobra (03/04) I've seen come apart do so in that range.

A lot of the problems with the earlier aluminum blocks were eventually traced back to using a small diameter underdrive pulley.

Here are GREAT posts by one of THE BEST modular engine builders out there (Al Pappito of Boss330 Racing) discussing the issues. Billet oil pump gears were a partial fix, but until you stop using a small diameter (like the Steeda) pulleys, it's going to break.

You have to wade through some of the fanboy "I'm-going-to-disagree-no-matter-who-you-are" jackasses.

Boss330 is who you want to pay attention to.

Start here (it gets pretty heated):
http://corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=811587&highlight=pulley

Then read this one. It talks about billet oil pump gears and revisits the pulleys:
http://corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=548311

This one's got pictures of a destroyed oil pump gear set. I believe the poster "EDO" was the lead designer on the '00 R 5.4 engine team:
http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=475554