Is this what you want to see? Am I doing it right now? My cars with huge breather lines? Like this?
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Yeah there we go! Huge lines with breather cans! woo hoo. On a skyline GT-R R34
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Supra engine? Sure why not! Put a breather on it! No problem!
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Everybody loves to see those cans and breathers. It really sells the car. Copy cat breather cans on a forced induction engine- make a profit and never see the engine again.

When I see that shit, I know the owner has no idea what they are doing. Because I used to be there, I CAME from there. I STARTED from that point- using large lines and breather cans that everybody else used. Thats how I know it doesn't actually work. It isn't healthy. It isn't right. It won't keep the engine healthy over the duration of high mileage, 100k 200k no way. All of those engines eventually start smoking and suffer oil-related issues, leading to catastrophic deposit related failure and excessive blow-by. Oil contamination. Piston ring glue. Browned and blackened crankcase crevices with hard diamond like and sticky tar-like coatings. What do you think that shit is made of? It's made of combustion blow-by!! Holy hell I let that stuff circulate around the engine? Whats wrong with me?!

I learned this through EXPERIENCE, WAY before I went back to school for engineering. I already knew going into college that catch cans and breathers DON'T WORK. I just didn't know why yet. I spent my fluid mechanics and fluid dynamics courses emphasizing crankcase and forced induction applications. I Studied the HOW and WHY of fluids within an engine, not just how to make POWER. Anybody can make power with money, throw money at the problem and 2000hp 4000hp. I already made all the power I could ever want- Buy the biggest turbos with nitrous to slam on the most built up engine. Sure!! We do it all the time. Thats OLD NEWS to me. What I am interested in now is how to make it LIVE a LONG LIFE. How to gain MAXIMUM reliability.
But but but all people care about on the internet is power still. They are still stuck at the lower level of how to make power in the first place. How to get the most power, largest engine, largest turbo, is still a 'goal' for so many they relinquish the thought or idea of longevity or reliability. Racing is abusive on parts, but some OEM cars tolerate racing conditions rather well. In an OEM application, 'shit' isn't supposed to happen. OEM reliability from a Toyota Supra or Nissan Skyline is superb despite 200hp/liter type of output and racing quality parts configurations. Wayyyy more power per displacement than most do with a V8 engine in a straight line for gods sake. How in the F do they do that? Why doesn't shit happen to those engines? Do you have any idea how many 2jz-gte 1995 Toyota supra engines I've seen imported with 150,000 miles that look brand new still? Over 500+ of them. Sold them all too!! Hot topic. Ask me about it sometime.

What if 99% believe the same thing "The Earth must be flat" everybody says it so it must be true! How can one person who types a bunch of words know something that nobody else knows? Huh?? He must be full of shit! He lacks experience!!
Funny thing about experience is... different people learn at different rates. And obsession has alot more to do with the driving force behind gaining knowledge specific to some issue than the experience itself.... awareness! Aptitude! What does it mean? Who cares

Even I have no idea how many cars and how many setups I've tuned.... hundreds upon hundreds. Every kind of engine. I could fill this page with pictures of engines I didn't even know existed. Every kind of stand-alone. I was doing it for free at one point so I got two or three jobs per day for years- thats how much I love learning and tuning engines. I'm also a software developer....
The Holley auto-tuning software you get with a modern ECU is a final version of an original software invention I started, I developed first the auto-tuner in 2004 before it was even a twinkle in Holley's eye. My database style acquisition array lead to what you see now, same concept just modernized. Did they use my idea? Or did they come up with the same thing that I did afterwards? I don't know. But Holley asked me for a copy in 2006... I was like here! I'm done with this shit anyways cya moved on to power FC, motec, Haltec, big stuff, AEM, Accel, whatever! They are all the same thing to a computer programmer.

/rant complete
The breathers, large lines, cans, may ruin the engine.
Bottom line: Don't do it. Use OEM pcv. Follow the original manufacturer's settings of 0.5" to 1.5" Hg at wide open throttle. Final warning? Hell no! I will be around to keep saying it until it sinks in: THE OEM KNOWS BEST> COPY THE OEM. Don't try to reinvent the wheel KISS. Don't try to copy other ID10T. The OEM solution won't let you down if you measure the pressure and set the pressure, bottom line. Crankcase pressure is like fuel pressure & boost pressure: Set it properly. I used a 1-bar map sensor because its available to everybody. I avoided the arduino and data-logging approach because not everybody has those things. Perhaps soon there will be a video showing how to setup a LCD display for crankcase pressure and a warning lamp and speaker for crankcase pressure while using the OEM PCV system using an arduino. I think that would really help tie the concept together. Many people are already measuring their crankcase pressure. Hell even this website has a quote dedicated to eliminating the breather system

https://www.theturboforums.com/info/article/catch-as-catch-can-oil-separators-101.378656/

1980's!!! Ouch guys! Stuck in the 80s for gods sake... read ur own website rofl

 

Thanks for the 10,000 word essay .. on well, nothing.

BTW, you know what time it is .. ???

I noticed all you had nothing to say about the "better" imports vs real Borgs. ADHD much ?

Turbo selection is all about math ... I gave enough basic info. If you can't offer a basic answer .. you must not be as ed-U-muck-ated as you thunk U are ...

If you need full boost @ 2000 rpm, you must be digging ditch's with a back hoe.

I never had a 6/71 .. so I can't speak on them. However I did have a 8-71 Hi-helix retro that I spun 52 over on Methanol. If I started opening jet cans too close to torque peak it would hammer the top half of the rod bearings and as stated before rattle the rings off their seats.
Who knows .. maybe if I showed up with a PVC valve and a short piece of 3/8ths hose .. I could have went .2 tenths quicker ...

Just think what the Top/Fuel , blown alky , Pro/Mod , guys are missing ... LMAO

Maybe you should go to a race in your 4-door / 4.8L / 200R / 8.5" open rear/ 200,000 mile beater and explain it to them ...

There is a term that real world people use .. "tech-lock" Maybe you have heard it before. It probably went over your head .. like my basic question did. In case you don't understand .. It's usually cases involved with over educated idiots creating problems, where there are none ...

 

You would be much better off to just put f4k on ignore. You are being trolled.

 

Thanks Ben, I have to agree with you. 4K'd in the head shows pictures with breather lines at the back of the valve cover , then going forward. Any rookie knows that under acceleration oil slams up against the back of the pan, block, rear cylinders, valve cover(s). Last place you would ever want it to exit is in the engine compartment .. especially in line with the wheels ... fire, crash, or if lucky .. just a big mess. I just take him / her for what they are . No biggie ..

I do have to thank Disney Lincoln and Mnix for their rational input.

 

That’s the only guy on here I have ever put on ignore.
I have a borg s480 waiting to install when my car gets that far. I went with a Borg over a copy as the real deal is a reasonable price and you know what you are getting. People say the Ching Chong units are better these days but the real deal is the way to go imo.

 

And borg is just that, budget friendly. I see guys who put s475/78/80s on semi's are blowing them up constantly. Some as quick as 3 months, but usually around a year to year and a half old. But they're cheap, $1500 compared to $3200 for factory garretts.

Now their efr line is killer.

 

Can you elaborate more on this? A genuine BW S400 is a pretty rugged turbo that came as a factory turbo on a few class 8 truck engines. Many of the diesel guys tend to drive them too hard, and over rpm them before they realize they need a gate, or more turbine. I'm assuming the factory Garretts are gated? They tend to be more often than not.

 

The overspeed has been mentioned plenty of times, and is what I first figured. But the majority of them just don't hold up. I personally know a guy who is pushing 50psi out of his, and another 42-44psi out of his fine, but then I see alot of guys blowing them up in the mid 30's. Cast and billet both. Usually the shaft snaps.

Yes the garretts are gated, borg 177148 is a gt47 sized that is also gated, and there's the 1.65 gated housing. But yea most use the non- gated 1.32 or 1.45 housing.

My theory is imbalance, and it shows up in the semis because they run at constant elevated levels compared to cars. I'd love to get a new borg on my vsr balancer to see what they balance at.

 

I think the poor boy's autism makes him grossly misunderstood ... LOL

I tend to agree with you about the original part as being better. And American made goes a long way with me in this day and age. I just can't help myself by looking at the VSR and thinking it's like when my wife comes home from shopping and says .. Honey look at what I got on a BOGO sale ... It's why I asked here before i pull the trigger.

bbi seyz :

BB ... while I have to agree that semi tractor trailers are a good way to endurance test.
(I have went thru Fancy-Gap 7% grade , where trucks were in the right hand lane billowing smoke @ less than 10 mph ... for miles)
But thats not what we are talking about .. is it .. ???
Nor is 50 psi . If I needed that much steam, I would go back to big blocks .

Honestly, from what I read, I expected you to be the one to say.. I wouldn't like them because they were too big .. and that I would much happier with ... XXX

EFR .. in the clone world .. it seems that all the companys are having fire sales on those models. I know it's a monkey see , monkey do world .. but the big push is on the more modern Air-Werks line. I'm open minded, please explain.

Balance ... maybe more important, blueprint. I don't really care for that misused word , but if it means to pull a brand new unit apart. Check end play, bearing clearance, wheel to housing clearance , chips and dirt left inside .. then in my world, thats a given. I think balancing should be part of that as well, now that you mentioned it. Since we are talking about production units .. how good is good enough for them to say .. it's good ,, send it.

I had gotten into bolt together , lock up converters towards the end of my racing career. I was excited to be able to adjust my own .. without sending it back.
I made some "fin bending tools", some "fin profile templates" ... only to find that many of the pump fins were at different angles. Not by much, but different. I determined it's why, it's hard to order a new converter .. just like the old one, and have it be the exact same .
I didn't want to go off , on another tangent .. just that I fully understand the importance of knowing what we have , before running it ..

I hope I don't have as much trouble with information, when it comes to primary tube size .. waste gates , intercooler choice and a blow-off valve ...

 

You are 100% correct, we aren't in the 50psi territory, but my point was that bw turbos aren't the end-all, be-all of turbos. They are a great budget friendly turbo. But I have seen lots, and lots, of them explode at moderate boost levels (moderate in the diesel sense I guess).

As far as recommending, it wasn't asked, so I didn't bother. Lots of other guys on here with experience if vs turbos are good or not. I can't do any recommending without atleast a hp goal @ x,x00 rpms. Hp sets the flow rate, engine size and rpms set the boost number. Once compressor is picked then I can figure up the hot side, depending on what the car is used for.

As far as your "what is good enough" question, you'd be amazed at how "loose" of a balance tolerance is allowed in order to go out the door. Garrett specs =<1g/mm in their smaller gt15/17/20/22 turbos, which is very loose. I can typically get them down to .1g/mm without much difficulty.

Blueprinting a turbo isn't really necessary unless you are pushing things to the very max. Not saying it isn't worth it, but not a lot to be gained. If you aren't pushing a turbo to its max, tightening up rotor-to- housing clearances give the most gains but will gain you an extra efficiency point or 2.

 

Again, I don't have a diesel.

I never said Borg turbo's were the end all, be all ... just what I was willing to spend as a first go around. With tech limited to semi-trucks and PVC valves .. maybe I should spring for the cheapest flee-bay turbos I can find . If I get it wrong .. I can throw em away .. not out much. Chalk it up to the learning curve.

And I did state on post #1 what the motor was. Doc, I see you didn't read the chart ..

If I was building a tank, gave you the gallons, ht. wt. and asked what the lt. would be .. and your response was // I need the lt. and wt .. its the only way I can figure out the ht.
It's the same equation .. but no .. I'm not going to ask you to step outside your little box .. and at this point I wouldn't trust what you said .. or buy anything from you, anyway .

Pretty simple though. A 408 ci 4.030 x 4.00 short block with a set LS-3 heads that are pretty well known to blow aprox. 350 cfm. Most guys run a .600" / 235* / 114 stick and make 550-600 on mule.
Putt around town .. couple pounds of boost, for kicks. Add one atmosphere , one should expect an honest 1000 -1100.
Add two atmospheres ... heat, inefficiency, parasitic losses, fuel quality, fuel delivery, might make 1500, maybe not. Pull the little cord, the driver will stop the buss anywhere along the line .. so you can step off. I would think you would know that ...

Again .. Disney .. Mnix , thanks for your input. My fun meter's pegged.

 

My original post was to pro-sc, then a reply to mnlx to clarify that post. Not sure what tangent you got on that you thought I was talking about you anyways?

Maybe re-read it so it's clearer?

And sorry, I'm a turbo builder, not an engine builder, someone saying they have a 408" motor with ls3 heads means nothing to me. Hence why I never said anything in the first place. I've built stuff for 32hp up to 3500, all sorts of different engines and combinations, I simply don't know all the different builds for every engine out there. Maybe if I was a one trick pony who only specialized in 408" motors I'd have the instant answer for ya, but I'm not.

 

My main reason for going with a Borg over price was the fact that they are an oem supplier, for John Deere, amongst others, hence there affordability. I figure if they work well in the field on a combine for days on end, they must have some durability for my car. Seems like a lot of other people feel the same, and when you look at what places like forced inductions does with them and all the parts available, they seem like a good option.

 

Genuine Borgs are better hands down when you compare them MM to MM. Cast genuine Borg S480’s out there are running S485 and S488 VSR times. That said for the price difference if you can hit *your* goal on a VSR unit and they are quite a bit cheaper it’s a no brainier for me to go with them. The reliability (at least in typical gas street/strip cars) is great in my experience.

As far as the OP goes, I’d shy away from bored/stroked motors. Esp in the 408 range. Just a bad idea all around IMO. The deck isn’t tall enough, bores don’t have enough meat, and you are weakening the block and shortening the life substantially by boring and stroking.

Build a standard 6.0, let the boost do the work and the keep the short block as strong as possible. Throwing a bunch of aftermarket parts at a stock block also makes no sense to me. Block and rotating assy are pretty much a paired unit. Around 1200crank the block shifts and the caps move. Gen4 parts can handle 1000ish (and much more, but become less than reliable) So you aren’t doing yourself any favors by putting “good parts” in a “not so good” block. Run a factory gen 4 6.0 or 5.3. Then build an aftermarket block setup if you want more than 1200 crank or so.

As far as turbos go… the “spool time” and what is acceptable is a matter of opinion and intended use. I run twin 78/75’s with .96 housings on a 5.3. IMO I spool these easily on the trans brake and they are great for the cost VS performance for s street/strip car. Personally I would run the 78/75 over the S366 clones. They are cheaper and they have mirror options that look MUCH better IMO.

The S366 clones have weird exhaust wheels that look nothing like the borg’s. They look like ceiling fans IMO… A genuine S366 is likely about as (if not more) capable than a gen1 cast 78/75. They have been proven many times over and will make as much power as a stock block should be playing with anyway. But they are more expensive than the $800 shipped mirror 78/75s I run. Which had also been 7’s on 3000lb door cars. (again plenty of turbo more most and at a great cost).

 

Thank you for the information force-fed 86 that’s exactly what I was looking for. So at what rpm are you at full boost and how much boost are you running please.

 

Hard to say, I’m not a roll or street racer, but it gets into boost quicker than I can plant the tire on the street (275 radial slick) even on gate pressure. 7-8psi trapped 138 on this setup. I pull timing over 5 seconds to get it to plant on the street.

As far as boost at the track, I just pick the boost I want to run. With the right converter you are at target boost within a second or 2 of releasing the brake. In my case I leave around 4300 and 7lbs. Converter flashes to 5500ish or so and boost is at 15lbs in about 1 second. The car isn’t very safe so I’ve stuck to 1/8th. 15ish lbs nets 5.50’s @ 128-129. (It’s a 2200lb ModelT, 2400 race ready SBE 5.3 w a mild cam)

IMHO 75% of a setup working well is the converter. You want it really loose down low and tight up top. PTC seems to have this down. Mine is a 9.5 billet with a 20-5 stator.