Okay fella's, I am a long time member of the B-Body forums but really need some good advice on my upcoming budget turbo build. Sorry in advance for the long post.

Engine is a 451, 10.25CR, Edelbrock 84cc heads, Victor single plain, and .590/312 solid cam. 1 7/8th full length headers w/ 3" exhaust. Car has a 4-speed, 4.10 rear w/ 30" tire.

Parts I am looking at/currently have:
Carb setup: E85 C&S 800cfm blow through with extreme velocity carb hat and C&S boost ref regulator.
Turbo:Borg Warner S475 (75mm/1.32 ar) ran at 10-12psi.
BOV:RPS 50mm
WG:Wyntonm (ebay) 60mm.
fuel pump: 2x Walbro 255lph external pumps
Scavenger pump for oil return:Tilton, Mocal, or Turbowerx.

First and foremost before I ask any other questions, what do you guys think of the above combo and part selection? Goal is only 600rwhp.

 

I would think 600 should be a easy considering it should be pushing over 500 n/a. Off the top of my head that seems like too much rear gear even with a 30" tire. Also, why rear mount? Seems easier to swap and some manifolds and fab some piping than to deal with the oil pump and all that extra pipe. Plenty of room of you relocate the battery.

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Also that's a lot if compression. Maybe a nice thick cometic gasket or some chamber porting are in order.

 

Well dynamic compression wise, it is hardly anything with the .590 solid camshaft. It spins over with 34* locked timing and fires right off. I am planning on being very conservative on timing, maybe a locked 24-28* and running 8-12psi. The car was built for N/A and probably makes 550-575HP currently. I am on a deal right now, and may have a S475 and CSU 750 blow through carb in my hands by the end of the week.

The car should only have 10:1, but the engine was blueprinted at 9.75:1 with factory heads (88-90cc). I dropped down to an 84cc head, so in theory, I should be at a lower static compression ratio than 10.25:1. Compression tests show 170-175psi. Thick head gaskets are $300 a set, I am trying to get away from that idea (atm). If I can run 10-12psi I will be happy.

Will an intercooler with a rear mount turbo, help me with my higher CR and avoid detonation? I know being conservative on timing is my main goal, but will an intercooler make a substantial difference?

 

What do you mean by "rear mount"?

I hope you don't mean to place the turbo somewhere in the back of the car because that is the utmost biggest mistake you can do. Equally important to exhaust flow is the heat energy so keep the turbo as close to the heads as possible.

 

Yes, doing a remote mount. I am not paying $1,000 for a set of tubular headers to run this setup under the hood as I still run a mechanical fan setup and just don't want to deal with the space management and dumping a 5" dump pipe out my fender. I am merging 2x3" pipes off the longtubes into a single 3" pipe via a 'Y' merge collector. This should have more than adequate exhaust velocity to spin the turbine with 451 cubic inches. 50# on the rear of the car (driver side, battery is located passenger side) makes a world of difference, other than 50# over the nose in terms of weight distribution. I am no expert or turbo's, other than mounting a rear scavenger pump, this seems much more manageable to me.

 

I'm working on a rear mount set up close to your specs Have started a build thread.

 

Hey rdakota340,
I checked out your thread. Really like how it started as a little project and is still going on three years later. I nearly have everything to go turbo, ordering a carb hat, scavenger pump, some oil/fuel lines and I'll be in business. Plan on having it installed by November 20th to be ready for Daytona Beach and the turkey rod run. Only difficulty at the moment will be initial mounting with a 50# turbo. We will be mocking it up on Monday or Tuesday. We are taking the car to an exhaust/welding shop to do all the tubing underneath for the hot/cold side. People install a pre-fabbed kit in a day or two, can't see how I couldn't do this in an entire month.

Rear mount seems to make logical sense, it is never good to place 50# over the nose of a car. Also, running some tubing underneath is to me, cheaper than spending $1,000 for a custom 'log' manifold setup to clear the wires and spark plugs. Also, don't want to dump a 5" pipe through the fenderwell on a street car. I still run a mechanical fan, and I don't want to give that up either as the car runs 160* around town, and 180* in deep traffic with my combo making 550-575HP.

 

Well I hope you will be satisfied with that rear mount. I have to say that I cannot personally see any logic or sense to that but I have no interest to argue with you. Good luck.

 

No argument needed. Just my personal preference. Thanks for your input though.

 

Thanks.Yes I was wanting to get mine done for Daytona but I have been working a lot on other stuff to get the funds to pay for other things for the car and yes my turbo weighs about 47#'s if I remember right.
And JariV the main reason I'm going rear mount is room did not want to cut up no more than I have to and just to see how good they work are not.

 

Picked up a Shurflo pump to use as a scavanger as suggested on a few forums. Some 5/8 forward and return line tubing for fuel/oil (50ft). Some T-bolt 3" clamps and some 3" couplers, 2x straights and 2x 90*. Nickel and diming me to death! making a deal on the final parts tomorrow for my turbo project. Everything else will just be picked up as we go locally.

Shurflo Pump Part #
8000-643-210

 

Don't forget our pics

 

Just wondering if you could run a oil system just for the rear mount?

 

Hey Rick,

Yes you can run a remote mount, stand alone oiling system. Their are a few potential issues that could arise though, as I was thinking about going this route. One issue is that if a pump fails, you're turbo is toast. If the scavenge pump fails from the turbo to the pan, you will see a generous amount of smoke coming from your tailpipe from the oil buildup on the bearing; blowing oil out the tailpipe. Just shut the car down and clean the turbo and you're back on the road. Another potential issue is that on long drives, the oil inside the stand alone system may get very, very hot and as we all know this is not good for pumps or turbo bearings. Also, it is just plain cheaper and easier to run a scavenge pump to the valve cover then to tap into the oil pan. I am running 5/8" drain line, don't plan on running a sump after the turbo. Was thinking of an remote oil filter, but I honestly think it would impede flow as it is only a 3/8 input.

Another plus of the SHURFLO pump is it has a built in check valve. So, that takes care of another potential issue of oil seeping back into the Turbo.

Only question is this.. I have around 65 PSI of oil pressure, do I need to run a restrictor vavle? If so, what size? I have read in Corky Bells Turbocharging book (basically for dummies like me) that the turbo bearing requires very little pressure. I have also heard that most turbo's have a restriction built in? Any idea? Just the small details that could make me or break me in this project.

 

I have a 68 coronet 500 with an 80mm rear mount. 452 cubes, etc, etc. I had the turbo at the front for three years then moved it to the back and ran it there for the last two years. On a b-body mopar with stock inner fenders and torsion bars I would never try it put the turbo in the front again. Is the rear mount the best, hell no! Now with it at the back I can see and even take out the spark plugs. On a nose heavy mopar do you you need more weight up there? Yeah rear mount is all wrong but I'm ok with it for my purpose. Good luck with YOUR build.

 

Looks like we are nearly on the same page! I would rather not cut up my ceramic coated headers to stuff a T6 turbo up front. Too much mess and clutter. People run rear mounts every day of the week, it is just when you talk about running it on a carbed application people seem to go 'off their rocker'. Thanks for the encouragement.

Ordered my RPS 50mm BOV, 3" stainless 50mm bov charge pipe, 4"-3" reducer with some more tbolts, a pre-made T6 flange pipe from columbia river, t6 flange with mounting brackets.. About another $250 bucks down.. Prices are getting up their now, but I am 99% done with part ordering. Going to order a spectre 3.5" tall carb hat with 4" inlet (advance auto parts, $60!!!). I only have 4" of clearance from carb to six pack hood. Engine has solid motor mounts so it sits 2" higher than stock.

 

You've lost me, it makes 550 N/A and your going to run 10 to 12 psi and your goal is 600hp. So you think it's going to take 10 psi to make 50 more HP ? lol

 

Every build is different boost is boost the motor doesn't know where it's coming from it's mainly how fast you can get the turbo to spool and air flow it can flow people run to big are to small of a turbo for there application I know the first turbo I bought was this Y2K 88m on my little 340 cube motor that only spun to 6000rpm I ran out of motor before the turbo really started working will we live learn I'm glad we have this forum so we can learn,From what I have read it should work good on this build I would just like to see a lot more DYI builds like this one.

 

550HP at the crank.. Goal is 600 at the rear wheels. What most don't understand is it takes quite a bit more relative power to turn an A833 transmission and 8 3/4 or Dana 60 rear end than a little 'baby' T5 and 8.8; you give the efficiency up for maximal strength. You can expect much higher percentages of drive train loss through these older cars as they are highly inefficient in comparison to today, probably upwards to around 20% at a low in a 4-speed. Most 440HP with 375HP from the factory only dyno around 260-280RWHP, that is a 20-25% loss through the drive train. Meaning I would need to make around 770-780HP at the crank in order to build around 600 at the rear wheels. Kind of spin that around your head for a moment. That is over 200HP than I am making now on motor. In comparison to my M12 equipped C5 Z06, I am only experiencing around 8-10% loss through the drive train.

 

I tried to work off the compressor maps to find the best overall 'budget' turbo, and that is why I came up with the S400 series. You know, people sit and nag about these do-it-yourself builds all day, and the parts we accumulate. I did my homework, probably 20-30+ hours easy in the last week alone researching all the correct parts to use. If I can get this build sorted out, running gasoline or E85, it may pave the way for my fellow "B-Body Forum" members to think outside the box. I would really like to make it where people could duplicate the parts needed to run a similar setup, and know about the total cost up front with a spread sheet. I think many are intimidated, but it really isn't severely complex. I mean, $6,500 for a BDS blower, $2,000 for carburetors and linkage, $500 for a carb hat setup, cut up my beautiful 6-pack fiberglass hood for what; 50-60% efficiency!? $2,500 complete turbo setup including carburetor, 70+% efficiency? It is a no brainer for me. I have around $1,900 in parts so far. I have 99.9% of parts ordered; the rest will just be barbed fittings and taking it up to the welding/muffler shop. Motor is mounted solid so I am probably going to use hose as minimally as possible, and just flare the steel tubing with the correct fittings. I am not trying to make this look pretty the first time around with stainless tubing, I am just trying to make it work. Once it works, I have plenty of time to make it pretty for the spring turkey rod run in March. If you go to Daytona and see a torch red RR with a turbo big block, you will know I survived the carnage of the turbo install and actually made it to Daytona as we drive the 200 mile round trip.

Have you noticed that their was a lot of people with roots blowers last year? It seems to be the new 'fad' with trailer queens now. Can't imagine why you would want to be surging all day in traffic? Love the look, but an 8-71 blower is not street friendly by any relative means lol.