Here's what I've been running up to 11.5 psi on the pump...above that I've added 1/2 tank of 110. So far it is working well
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428 9.2:1 comp
AFR 225's
Super Victor EFI
FTI turbo grind

 

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Only hit 135 load on cool night. So at 8psi I am 19* stock 5.0. Tempted to up it.

 

i have a 92 mustang gt single turbo setup basic stock block and heads few bolt ons 42lber's 255 in tank, msd 6al and btm, anderson pms series 1 what do you guys think i should set my timig at with running 93 octane pump gas???

 

Stock 1986 engine with ported and slightly milled e7's, 9.2.1 compression 15-16psi with 23*locked non intercooled on 93 octane. I ran the timing up to 30*locked non intercooled on pump gas with 16psi and it finally cracked a ring land. It lasted two hard seasons of street and track use with 157,000 miles and 12-16psi 23*locked constantly. My old 1983 stock engine around low 8's compression i think never checked that one and 12psi non intercooled 30*locked lasted one season until i turned up the controller fully open with 23psi 30*locked and it cracked some cast pistons also.

 

I run a EEC-tuner, with max timing of 21* at 2500 rpm-redline. This is with ambient temps of ~20-30*. Never heard any detonation.

T-66, stock 5L longblock, Autolite 23 plugs, 10 psi, 93-94 octane. 255 pump, 42lb injectors. 11.9-12.3 AFR at WOT.

 

I have a hard time with all these 5.0 efi guys running 20+ degrees on pump. I never leave one with more than 13-14 degrees in them. Do you guys ever watch your timing with a light under load to see what it really is? Do you test them on a loaded dyno to see what your power gains are per degree? I just finished a 5.0 P1sc tonight and it ended up with 13 degrees over 5k with 10psi. More lead than that it was not gaining much. I did a 76mm/331/DFI car last month and ended up 12 degrees at 4k and 16 at 6500.... FWIW the "woverine mustang" has 16 lbs and 16 degrees when it makes over 700 on pump and it lives...

Timing is never the answer. Take your engine apart and look at the main saddles and upper rod bearings.

 

I see my timing via datalog (tweecer r/t) granted I see 19*. After the turbo I ran 21* but never raced it at that. Made one pass at 18* and switched it to 19*. Never been to a dyno.

 

Timing locked at 20* will be stay at 20* regardless of the load on the engine.

Jess

 

has any one tried rinning 0-2initial with the spout in ? total would be like 16-18 right ?

 

When I my motor was a EFI 302 I ran 6* initial with plug in. My car had lower compression, 69' 351 heads on a stock 302 short block. The car ran better this way that having the timing locked, better drivability.

Jess

 

thanks. anybody else ? i guess i'm okay then ?

 

you should look at it with a light...

 

junky, did it run hot or hotter ?

 

It ran hotter, glowing pipes(and a little higher on the gauge) with they timing locked at 20*. By putting the spout in at something like 4* you limit the total timing at WOT to about 20*(I forget if a 9al computer added 15* or 16* to base timing at WOT), but you still get the part throttle advance for just driving around that the computer adds. This made for better driveability at part throttle with my car.

Jay Meagher you must be confused or something.

If you set your timing to 20*, and leave the spout out you car will have 20* all the time. Rev it to the moon if you want. If your car does not do this you have some mechanical issues, sloppy timing chain, worn distributor gear, and so on.

Currently I use a carb with a programmable Malory Max-fire distributor. With no local Dyno place I got tired of screwing with the stock computer via a Tweecer. Now I program what I want into my distributor and go.


Jess

 

In a perfect world yes. In the world of working on cars no...

You need to look at your timing with a light under load. I understand how the TFI system works, what I don't understand is the 94-95 Mustangs I have checked always have timing drift. Any engine needs to be checked before you get into any real tuning. Before I tune anything American I check with a piston stop to ensure the relationship between the balancer and the timing pointer are correct. On the engines with fixed triggers you just have to check for drift and make sure the ref angles are correct.

If your not EFI and the distributor is doing the work your all good.

 

that's wierd. seems like something is wrong there if you are getting timing drift. i've never had "timing drift" with the spout connector out. the SPOUT (SPark OUTput) wire is the signal wire from the ECM to give it any control over timing. if you have the spout connector disconnected, the control module will use the PIP signal to fire the coil. That results in a fixed spark angle and dwell. so whatever you have your distributor turned at will be the timing and will not change no matter what rpm or load its at. It's the same as running a locked out distributor on a carbed engine.

 

Timing Drift= worn parts or mechanical issues.

Jess

 

I agree with you... I have only seen this on TM04 PCM's.

My point wasn't to get into how PIP is derived, it was just stating that the timing needs to be verified with a light before tuning starts.

To go further down the rabbit hole... If you think that running locked timing a on a turbocharged engine is the correct approach your going about it all wrong. For more than one reason that anyone tuning their own engine should understand before they ever pickup a timing light or set up a boost controller. There will come a time that the guys that keep blowing HG's "even thought it's not detonating...." come to terms that using the correct engine management is so much cheaper in the long run.

I am no Shane T... I haven't tuned every platform on the planet but I do understand an engine will tolerate less lead at low RPM/high load than it will at high rpm high load. To the guys running what 20 degrees on 10-12+psi on stock EFI 5.0s your just tearing shit up for no good. If my 10 to 1 CR 302 in NMRA R/S form with 15psi on 100 octane(and thats a far cry from 93) would eat at 22 degrees. There is no reason for you all to be running that amount of lead. I never leave more than 15-16 degrees at peak rpm and 12@peak tq...
If you guys want to discuss different platforms/cr/octane and the other myriad of things that influence the engines ability to work right I am game. If it's going to be a pissing match of "what your buddy does" I will just climb out of the sandbox.

Jay

 

I totally agree with Jay...

I don't quite understand why people put so much time and $ and effort into their car just to half ass tune it.... Locking the timing is not the way to do things as Jay said...


Jay...have you found anything common as far as light cruise/pt timing? I currently am runnnig ~35* in my light cruise areas....(high vac) under load I'm usually taking some timing out as I approch peak tq, then adding some in after the fact.... Do you agree with this approach or am I in left field?

How do you go about your timing curve? I unfortunatlly don't have access to any decent dynos close by (anything with a load cell on it) so 98% of my tuning is done on the street...and checking the plugs from time to time.

 

I try to mimic stock timing under cruise as the factory engineers put a good amount of time into making this right. I have standalone on my daily and have tried different timing/AFR for gas mileage but don't see enough change worth talking about. I do have a eddy brake on my dyno and check timing under light load in the lower RPM's. I think one of the biggest problems we have to deal with is the web. It seams like "certain" parts of the country makes more power than another. I make it a practice to dial the car in a make some sort of a number that is up to standards on the web.... Than I turn my eddy brake on to get some load in it. I have some sort of database and I know how long the car will take to get through the gear on the street. So on a 450whp car it's 12-14% on the brake. At that point my numbers go to shit but my tune will be good on the road and I don't have to go kill myself or someone else testing on the street. My dyno numbers will never be the highest and I don't have some sort of ritual to cool them off to impress anyone. I just don't want stuff to break.

As far as timing VS "load" vs RPM I don't know how to explain it any better than I have tried. At this point I may have better luck trying to get a $10 lapdance at Mons Venus on the 28th of the month...

Run the engine fat and soft near the recovery of the gear change(and/or peak tq) and you can lean on it at the top of the gear.

It's really neat to see so many domestic guys with turbochargers nowadays. Just five years ago the numbers were probably half they are today. I don't know that enough 5.0 guys understand how under equipped their engines are dealing with power adders. The turbo comes up(maybe the same every time, maybe not...) The stock ECU has no resolution to even be tuned correctly, the mains are busy micro welding themselves to the block and the MAF is sending voltage to be throw into a bunch of inferred values that have nothing to do with what your doing with the car at this point.

Take a MAF car to the dyno. Start to hot lap it on the dyno and watch "load" change as the system gets heatsoaked. Your tune goes to crap with dropping "load" and increased timing. Let the car cool for 10 minutes and run it again... Tune is good again Really where do you go from there? If you had a platform like an EVO or a Supra it wouldn't matter much, the system has knock retard and the engines live through almost anything.

If you have a turbocharger buy a real engine management system.