I finally mocked up a 460 in my '69 stang and have found that I won't have room on the driver side to put a header pointing forward with the C4 'vette suspension.  So then, I'll need to run both pipes to the passenger side and that would make it much easier to use a single large turbo instead of the two powerstroke turbos I was going to use.  I don't want much HP as this is a purely street driver and want low maintenance reliability.  700-800hp would be fine.  ANYWAY, with stock ported heads, a mild hydraulic cam with .550" lift and 230* @ .050" and 514 cubes, will a HT3B turbo with I think a 22cm exhaust housing spool pretty well?  I'm wanting boost at around 2000rpm with a peak of 6000rpm.  Thoughts? Oh yeah, the car was already hacked up when I got it so don't give me crap about cutting up a classic Also, in the pic, the engine is setting 1.5" too far to the passenger side as I needed to clearance a bit more firewall to center the motor. That's why there looks to be a lot of room on the driver side where there isn't actually much (about 2.25" between head and top A arm). I was impressed with how well the stock corvette spring held it up. I'll prob need coil overs once I get everything assembled in there. Oh well, still a very cheap nice suspension.

 

i'm thinking the 22cm housing as being on the small side for 514CI I know they made them as big as 32-36cm for those as well. Rumor is that 22 is around a .9x A/R or there about. You'd be better off with something bigger i'm sure, but try it and see. Worst that can happen is you overspin the turbo

 

doing the basic calculations, I need a turbo that flows 72lb/min at 10psi or so.  That's quite a ways out of the efficiency range of the HT3B and more in line with a 100+mm turbo.  But I'm confused as I'm just planning to build a mild 514 that will spin to only 5500-6000rpm and would make 450-500hp naturally aspirated.  That would put me at 750-800hp with 10psi boost, no?  Isn't a 100mm or larger turbo for engines making quite a bit more power than that?  If the H3TB is close to a T76, that would be about perfect for 750-800hp, right?  What am I missing?  It appears I don't have a clue as far as reading a compressor map.  10psi is 1.68 p/r, no?  And each lb/min of flow is equal to around 10hp, right?  Anyway, I'd like a turbo that will have no problem producing 800hp at 10psi on my 514 and will give me some room to grow to maybe a bit over 1000hp (engine hp, not rear wheel).  Would the HT3B with its 76mm wheel do the job?   I don't think the 514 would have much problem getting it spooled up. I can get the turbo with 32cm exhaust housing too, so that works out fine.

 

I would think the HT3B would be good for 700-800hp, i just think the 22cm turbine housing is too small for that large of a engine. The boost would be right there off idle but may die an early death in the upper rpm's  

 

but the 32cm housing is peachy? it's a split housing so I'd be happy with a housing too large instead of too small. If it's too large, I'd feed just one side of the turbine housing and use a big wastegate set at 6-8psi to send exhaust to the other side of the housing. The idea would be to get boost right off idle and hold it steady up to redline.

 

I'd like to hear someone elses opinion on this, I know there is a HT3B witha 76mm wheel and 32cm housing on ebay right now, rebuilt and cheap (starting at $250) Another way to go would be a Detriot Diesel turbo, 85mm compressor and a 1.32 or 1.6X A/R on the hot side TV8101 is the part number. I wouldn't think they would lag too much with those cubic inches.

 

With a 514 I would go with a TV8101 or TV8301. If only want 700 hp with a big block then stick with a 460 and boost that.

 

ya know how projects change before they're done... I already have the 514 ready to put together except valves, some gaskets, rod bearings, and oil pump. With SCE .093" head gaskets I'll be at 8.4:1 compression with iron heads. Since it's a street car, I want to run pump gas so I can't boost too terribly much (and 335/35-17 tires aren't cheap either). Hmmm, looks like the TV8101 will be the way to go. Where there different exhaust housings available for that turbo and if so, which one should I look for? If I end up replacing the engine, it'd be with a bigger one as I have a couple 4.3" stroke cranks and a few spare blocks that I wouldn't mind putting to use. If I were to do it all again, I'd just use common 460 flat top pistons with the 429 stock crank which would make it a very cheap build. Oh well. TV8101 is 83mm, right?

 

No i think they are 85mm

 

Ok, did quite a bit of searching on the spool characteristics of the TV8101 and it appears I won't be making boost, even with 514 cubes, until 3000rpm on my mild motor.  That's not too terribly high as I don't have to shift until 6000rpm and it may help to prevent burning up the tires when leaving stop signs at 1/4 throttle.... but I don't know when I'd hit full boost, maybe 4000rpm.  Here's some basic specs put in order of my build and hopefully someone can give me a pretty sure suggestion of whether to use the HT3B 76mm turbo or the TV8101 85mm.  I want a strong street car but don't need 1000hp as I think 700hp will be enough to make it interesting and long term reliability is quite important.
Block: factory 2 bolt main D9TE bored to 4.44 with ARP main studs
Crank: factory 460 offset ground to 4.15 stroke with bbc 2.2 rod journals
Rods: Eagle 6.7inch 4340 H beams with L-19 bolts
Pistons: JE SRP with 23cc dish
Heads: home ported D3VE factory iron with 7/16 studs
Cam: Comp XE284H hyd flat tappet 240*/246* @ .050  and .584/.588 lift  110* LSA (can be changed if necessary)
Intake: Edelbrock torkerII
Carb: Ebrock 750cfm modded for blowthru
Compression: 8.4:1

Was hoping to use factory truck exhaust manifolds as I don't think tube headers are needed for such a mild build.  I'm only wanting 10-12psi of boost and will be using a C6 auto with stock converter or slightly looser than stock.  Rear gears are 3.89 now but will go to 2.75 or 3.00 before turbo setup is running.  Basically, if the HT3B will spool easier and be plenty for my goals, I'll use that.  But if it will choke up the 514 before 5500rpm, I'll use the TV8101 if it will start boosting by 3000rpm.

 

On my 383 the HT3B, 22cm housing, makes full boost in third gear at about 3500 and about 3800 in first gear. The only thing not stock on my engine are the home ported heads. Still has stock manifolds. A 514 would be choked with this exhaust housing. I would think a 32cm housing would be about right.

 

Go with the bigger housing. My twin and I are doing about the same project. Its a mild build 429 in a 71 mustang. BUT we are going with the twin 60's with a slightly loose AR. We have tried a tighter AR and boost right from the bottom, but the power and torque is WAY too much for the tire we had. 275/45/17's nittos.
While nuking the tires at almost any speed sounds fun, it makes for a big problem in driving and even in slightly bad weather.
Our other project was a 400 LTD with a single. It was at first WAY too tight and then we loosened it up (HT3 with 22cm housing). Fun flooring it and scaring the crap out of wouldbe ricers, but not very drivable. After switching to the mentioned 32cm housing we got much better boost characteristics and it turned into the car that would run (highway that is).

Beating a Ferrari and a turbo Proche on the upramp and up to 130 is fun, but that's when the 1972 LTD aerodynamics asserted itself....
-bix

 

I'm curious as to how you are calculating spool up rpm. Are you doing this from the compressor map? Also not to piss on your parade but did you do a sonic check with a 4.44 bore.

Greg

 

Personally, I think that if you are going to turbo, don't waste your money on the bigger cubes. It would be completely unnecessary. Secondly, with as absolutley crappy exhaust flow stock production heads have ( even when ported well ) I don't think the smaller housing on the turbo nor the stock exhaust manifolds would hurt you too much. I also don't think it would choke you. Lastly, don't use a POS edelbrock ( quadratoliet copy ) carb for blow through. The holley blowthroughs are cheaper and easier to come by and or modify to blow through yourself.

Use a stock crank, eagle rods, cheap TRW flattops ( forged ), the D3 heads ( home ported ), the torker II intake, holly blowthorugh carb, a cam with more LSA than 110, look for 114 or something close, and that HT3B turbo and you will have a very mild, streetable 700+hp with no problem.

 

Excellent questions and suggestions. Yes, I did sonic check the block at 4.44" bore and there are some non thrust walls under .100". That's one of the big reasons I don't want to go over 1000hp even though I know of a very credible guy who was pushing 1300hp with a blower on a 4.44" bore stock block (so prob 1500hp since the roots blower sucks some hp) and used it without sonic testing for years. He finally tore it down for freshening and sonic tested it and found less than .100" non thrust walls. So that's comforting. I've got plenty of stock cranks and a set of 460 flat top forged pistons (the lightweight TRW pistons Summit sells for $400+ but I got em cheap). I've already got all the stuff for the 514 but I don't think I'd get much for the assembled stroker motor if I were to sell it to build another. What I would likely do is use a 429 crank with the 460 pistons to get my c/r low enough to use quite a bit of boost. Yes, I know my heads probably don't flow more than 200cfm on the exhaust ports and that's only good enough to support about 500-600hp NA, depending on how well they actually flow. I was hoping that'd be enough for 700-800hp with boost. I got the new SRP pistons for $154, the crank with main bearings for $200, the rods with only dyno time and the L19 bolts for $230, and new JE rings for $50. I really don't have much cash in the motor and I know I could get more out of it than I put into it so maybe I should just start over. Is the edelbrock carb a copy of the quadrajet? They don't look even close to similar to me. I'm talking about the performer series, not the quadrajet carbs that edelbrock rebuilds and sells for stock replacement apps. I've got the larger needle/seats, marine accelerator pump, air horn milled, and need to get the thermoquad floats. Is there anything beyond that needed to make it blowthrough? It seems about the same as the holley as far as mods required. The cam is a bit tighter LSA than I wanted to use but was hoping that 110* would be fine since strokers NA tend to like tighter lobe splits. Does the rule not translate over to boosted engines? Now for the BIG question, if I just sell my 514 to build something else, should I just use a 351W? I have a fresh 351C but I'd need custom dished pistons. It's been bored .030" and hasn't been sonic checked. Right now it just has TRW cheapie forged flat tops, stock rods with ARP bolts, stock crank, and ARP studs. Should I use one of my spare sets of open chamber 2V heads with extra thick gaskets or use some of my 4V closed chamber heads with custom deep dish pistons with quench pads? Can big enough dishes be made to work with the closed chamber heads to get 8:1 compression? Questions, questions...

 

He obviously has already made up his mind with going with the big ci route.  I though you used to run a big block setup, why all the negativity?  That's like reading a post about someone's 302 buildup and saying "I personally don't think you should waste your time with a 302 since if you plan on making big horsepower you will need a pricey aftermarket block and crank."  Don't take it personally I just gotta defend the dinosaur big block .

Why NOT turbo a big block?  Given the same decent size turbo that will support 700 fwhp for both build-ups; the big block would need rods, and some decent pistons to be realiabe.  How about 302?  With the 385 series big block you could use the stock crank, block, and heads.  Admittedly the heads would need to be ported and fitted with bigger valves.  Now can the same be said for the 302?

Greg

 

I was basing the spool characteristics of the TV8101 on a comparable 351W and dividing my cubes into the 351 and multiplying that number into the boost rpm of the 351 to account for the displacement difference.  I know that's only a rough estimate but it seemed about the best way to go since that turbo isn't originally designed to go on our "small" gas engines and therefore not much info on how they perform with gas motors.  I would like to go with the 514 but at the same time if someone has gone big block before and has good advice, I'm grateful to hear it.  I was all ready to use my big block but if a 351 (w or c) can pretty dependably hold 700hp with maybe a single HT3B with the small 22cm exhaust housing, I have no issue at all with changing the combo.  I won't get much out of my 514 short block, but more than I've put into it.  I do have a 351C and I would need good dished pistons to make that route work.  Aluminum heads would be nice but for the much lower price of 351W alum heads and available dished pistons, I may be money ahead to pick up a windsor to build while just selling my cleveland stuff.  Basically I have a 514 and 351C but if a 351W would be the best route for what I want to do, I can sell the bbf and cleve stuff to build a good windsor.  This is gonna sound crazy, but I'd also love to get decent gas mileage so a small motor isn't much of a bad thing if it will put out 700hp.  This car will never have drag slicks and even though it's an old '69, I'd like to drive it at least 8-10K miles per year.  If it's cheap and easy to do a 700hp 351, I may even manage the $$$ to put in a 5 or 6 speed manual... which I would prefer over an auto below the 800hp or so level.

 

Well if you want the mileage go with the 351 windsor or the cleveland, not much you can do about mpg with a big block LOL. 

Greg